EP 05 – Fat Sex-cation – BDSM, Kink, Power play and Relationship Anarchy – Tonya

EP 05 – Fat Sex-cation – BDSM, Kink, Power play and Relationship Anarchy – Tonya

Ep 5 – LIVE From Desire: Tonya! BDSM, Kink, Power play and Relationship Anarchy

 The Fat Sex Series!  Interview from Fat Sex-cation!

Fat and Disabled BDSM, Kink, Power play and Relationship Anarchy

It says it’s part 2 but we don’t know where part 1 went so… yeah. Here’s the juicy stories about playing in the dungeon!

Tonya is a fat women relationship anarchist who lives in Florida.

You’ll also get to hear a little bit about playing with me and my love!

“I want fat people to feel good and feel like they are just as entitled to feeling good in their bodies and sexually as anyone else, including as entitled as sexist and people.” Briana Cavanaugh

Show notes: Fat Sex Series!Sex-cation,BDSM, Kink, Power play and Relationship Anarchy! Guest interview Interview with Tonya from Jacksonville, Florida!

It says it’s part 2 but we don’t know where part 1 went so… yeah. Here’s the juicy stories about playing in the dungeon! (Yes BDSM and Kink! And Power play!)

Tonya is a fat women relationship anarchist who lives in Florida.

We talk about:

-What is relationship anarchy
– “I don’t want to limit or try to define any relationship.” Tonya
– Some of my relationships are defined. I have a husband. We’ve been together 13 years.
– “And if my friends, John and Joe, who have been together for 20 ****ing years, if they can’t get married, I’m not going to get married because it’s bullshit. And then of course, as soon as gay marriage happened, everybody asks me, Tanya, when are you getting married? I’m like, **** you. I’m not getting married. I’m just not getting married. And then we got married.”

– Dungeon night!

– Community and staying connected through out the year!
– An anal fisting scene
– A little bit of sex magic!
– How we deal with having different level of safer sex protection levels.
– Feeling honored in our safer sex conversations
– HSV and how Tonya talks about genital herpes.
– Safer sex testing and privilege
– STI and other risky behavior
– STIs can be treated
– Questions to ask yourself before going out into sexy situations, dungeons, BDSM!
– “I want fat people to feel good and feel like they are just as entitled to feeling good in their bodies and sexually as anyone else, including as entitled as sexist and people.”
A lot about how awesome Tristan Taoromino sexoutloud.com podcast – she’s amazing!
References to Cooper and Dylan from Life on the Swingset.
– A lot of details about squiriting and being in service to the goddess that is Tristan Taromino.
– Most women do not have orgasms from penetration alone!
– Talk to you partner about everything!!

– “So. Orgasm hasn’t been a focus for me for a really long time. I don’t really masturbate because I have carpal tunnel and my wrist and vibrators just weren’t doing it for me”

– Different kinds of orgasms!
– Kink and power play: We went to our area and got set up and she said, you’re going to sit here, and we discussed my body and what it can and can’t do,
– “and we talked about what her expectations were and that, you know, I was going to serve her and I call her ma’am and she was going to put me in a collar and was I okay with that?”
– Collar is one of the signifiers of power play. Very hot and very kinky!
– “And she was adamant, absolutely adamant that at any point, if I became physically uncomfortable or had any pain or any issues with anything. I was to let her know immediately and she said, because if you can’t serve me in the way that I need to be served, then that displeases me.”

– “I’m not real good with measurement, you know, I mean, men, my whole life had been telling me this is eight inches.”

– “That you can have all these connections and all these different ways and they, they don’t look like, you know, what, what mainstream people, you know, connections are kind of quote unquote supposed to look like.”

Episode 8 Tonya – BDSM, Kink, Power play and Relationship Anarchy Transcript

[00:00:00] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:00:00] Welcome to extraordinary, the podcast where plus size and fat people come to learn about making extraordinary choices and meeting extraordinary people. I’m your host, Briana Cavanaugh. Okay. So this is the continuation of the recording with Tonya. We’re at desire. It’s a, what is it? Wednesday. And we talked about health.

[00:00:23] We are now going to talk about relationship configuration. So Tanya, you talked about in the beginning that you identify as relationship anarchist. So tell us about your relationship configuration and how you discovered your. Like how you came to be open really should be anarchist and like that.

[00:00:42] Tonya : [00:00:42] Okay.

[00:00:43] So my husband and I have been together 13 years. We’ve been open from day one. Um, I have never specifically said until the last few years, never specifically said I was non-monogamous or anything like that. It was [00:01:00] just for us how it worked in the beginning was he. Felt he was a late bloomer. So he felt that he’d missed out on a lot of experience that he thought other men had had.

[00:01:12] So he essentially didn’t want to commit and settle down. I was fine for me, cause I wasn’t looking for that. We started off as just a, I didn’t have anything better to do and I wasn’t getting laid. But I have had pretty much the agreement in every relationship in my adult life that I am into women. And I will not give up *****.

[00:01:37] For you or anyone. So you have a problem with me. ****ing women then get out. And of course, you know, most men are into that, you know, they’re like, Oh, we’re going to have a threesome. And that’s essentially how we operated for a long time. I wanted to **** women, most of whom were just my friends, and we’d had that kind of relationship and they would be into him.

[00:01:59] So we [00:02:00] had a lot of threesomes, had a lot of **** buddies. Um, but then. All of our playmates essentially paired off and became monogamous. So we didn’t have any playmates anymore. So I was like, well, dating is a pain in the ass. I hate it. It’s so much effort. I don’t have the time. I don’t have the energy. So we decided, well, you know, we could just be swingers,

[00:02:25] and I’ve always, I’ve been consuming like it’s air.Sexuality and relationship podcasts for, I dunno, years now. Um, I think I started in like 2011 and during one of those podcasts I heard them talk about relationship anArchy and how, you know, you just, it’s not a hierarchy. You don’t necessarily label relationships. The, the relationships are just whatever they are.

[00:02:57] You might be a friend one day you might be a lover the [00:03:00] next day you might be a friend. The next day you might be like family. You know, it just, it’s fluid. It happens. I don’t want to limit or try to define any relationship. Some of my relationships are defined. I have a husband. We’ve been together 13 years.

[00:03:17] We’ve been married in January. Four three we only got married because he needed health insurance. You know, not neither one of us ever wanted to get married cause it’s just, I think it’s an outdated institution that is just unnecessary, you know? And for a long time, my hardline was. I am not going to get married until everyone can get married because that’s ****ing privileged bullshit.

[00:03:45] And if my friends, John and Joe, who have been together for 20 ****ing years, if they can’t get married, I’m not going to get married because it’s bullshit. And then of course, [00:04:00] as soon as gay marriage happened, everybody asks me, Tanya, when are you getting married? I’m like, **** you. I’m not getting married.

[00:04:05] I’m just not getting married. And then we got married. So my husband, you know, he was my boyfriend before that. I would have heard him occasionally as my partner, because when you’re an adult, it sounds ridiculous sometimes to say boyfriend. So there’s him. We also have another partner, has a girlfriend that he met on OkCupid when I was going out with an old friend of mine that I was spending the night with, cause I intended to **** him and I’m like, you should find a date for yourself.

[00:04:35] And so he went on OkCupid, met. This girl who lives in Berlin but is from the States and was visiting her family. So he linked me her profile and I was like, Oh ****, I want to meet her. She’s also fat and fabulous and gorgeous and amazing. And if you listen to this Diva, I love you. Um, we’re coming up on a, I’d have to [00:05:00] dig through my calendar.

[00:05:00] Seven years, I think, since we met in December. So there’s her. And we see her once a year because maybe twice a year, but she lives in Berlin. And then I have a girlfriend that we’re coming up on one year since we met also on OkCupid. These people I met, not because I was looking for someone to date, it was just a chance thing and that just kind of, she and I.

[00:05:28] It was like lust at first sight. Like, did I mention that? Ask. I think that might be part of the road. Oh my God. My girlfriend has got this ass that big. Yeah. Like I like big butts, sir. Mix-a-lot where, you know, we’re like this. So she and I have been dating since mid-December, and she is a single mom at the time.

[00:05:56] She had a partner that lived, I live in Jacksonville, [00:06:00] Florida, and she had a male partner that lived in Atlanta. Um, their relationship ended, uh, roughly two months ago. Uh, she and I see each other a couple of few times a week. And then for a short while, a couple of months ago, my husband and I also had a girlfriend.

[00:06:21] That we didn’t share. We met her crazily enough, completely independent of each other, and it turned out we were both talking to the same chip. Like I’d gone out of town and I came back and he’s like, Oh, I was talking to this, to this chicken. Um, and tried to get her to have dinner with me, but she was working, but we’re still gonna try to get together.

[00:06:41] And I’m like, Oh, what chick? So I went to OkCupid to look, and then I had a message from this chick that I’ve been talking to and I was like, Oh, I forgot about her, cause I had just gone out of town. And so I was talking to her and he looked over my shoulder and he’s like, yeah, that’s her. So I was like, Oh.

[00:06:56] And you know, it, it seemed like, you know, [00:07:00] we were very well matched. And so for about a month, month and a half. We were both seeing her together, you know, um. It was almost a unicorn kind of situation. She was in a complicated relationship situation around that partly ultimately led to me ending that romantic relationship with her, but mostly just because we weren’t compatible in the ways that I needed us to be.But he is still seeing her and that’s working out. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s fine. I don’t, I don’t interfere in his relationships because we have, he, I don’t know how he defines himself. It’s not something, it’s just part of our life. We don’t, you know, sit down and try to label, well, what exactly are we, you know, we’re just, it’s just whatever we’re essentially relationship.

[00:07:57] And our guests [00:08:00] just not necessarily by design, but just by, um, by structure or by, if there’s like a phrase, I can’t think of you. And by default, I guess you could say, although really when I learned about it, that’s pretty much how I am because I don’t like to put labels on things like I don’t want to define them so.

[00:08:21] That’s pretty much where we are with relationships. However, through Desire, since Desire last year, I have met other folks who are definitely friends and sometimes lovers, always friends. That’s, I mean that’s really the key is that we are close and intimate and I think you can be intimate with them without sex, you know?

[00:08:51] Briana cavanaugh: [00:08:51] Absolutely.

[00:08:52] Tonya : [00:08:52] And platonic intimacy doesn’t get the recognition that it deserves because I can [00:09:00] smuggle up and cuddle with you and we can be close and intimate how we can even kiss and make out without ever having sex. You know, people take anything that’s sexual and they want to put it on a pedestal and make that the Mark.

[00:09:16] And it doesn’t have to be. You know?

[00:09:18] Briana cavanaugh: [00:09:18] Right. We idealize, um, kind of partnerships really. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:23] Tonya : [00:09:23] And, and longterm relationships. You know, I listened to Dan Savage and he, he’s always right. He says a lot of things that pisses me right the **** off. But he says a lot of things that I agree with, like, you know, short term relationships are not failures.

[00:09:40] Short term relationships have value.

[00:09:43] Briana cavanaugh: [00:09:43] Yes.

[00:09:43] Tonya : [00:09:43] You know, every. Single interaction you have with someone. However, short or however long is a relationship because it is two people relating to each other, you know, and there are all different kinds of ways you can relate to [00:10:00] people. So, and it’s all valid and it all has meaning.

[00:10:05] One night stand, a chance encounter, you know, you shared something in those moments, good or bad, you know, maybe it’s a life lesson and you’re like, I’m never doing that again. Or maybe it leads to something, you know, like what I feel that we have here meeting. You two. Last year was amazing. I love seeing you come up in my Facebook feed and it has molded my attitudes and thoughts about so many things that have evolved and being with the people here, I’ve made so many connections that even if we don’t **** each other brains out or whatever here, those connections are going to last and I want to foster them.

[00:10:49] Going forward. And to me, that’s

[00:10:51] Briana cavanaugh: [00:10:51] community.

[00:10:52] Tonya : [00:10:52] It’s community. And that’s ultimately what relationship and Archy is to me. You know, it’s not monogamy is if [00:11:00] one, two people, whether it’s a man and a woman or a man and a man, a woman, a woman, or, or anything in between. And they are each others. Everything, and they fulfill all of their needs.

[00:11:12] And I don’t believe in all that the one and a soul mate, I mean, you can have soulmates, but that’s not the end all, be all. You know, you don’t have. You don’t have just one level of love for one family member and you don’t love the rest of your family.

[00:11:28] Briana cavanaugh: [00:11:28] No. It’s very idealized. My personal opinion is, you know, kind of looking historically the, we, we’ve only recently idealized kind of romantic partnership.

[00:11:38] You know, there’s always been like, you know, you live with your family and your extended family and your community because it takes a lot of people to make, to make stuff go right. Yeah. Was it Jocques that was talking about somebody made a, a chicken sandwich from scratch and it took six months and cost 12 $12,000 or something like that.

[00:11:56] Cause, you know, growing the seeds and raising the chickens and [00:12:00] like, you know, it’s, it’s a lot to do all of this, you know, all the things that takes to, yeah. Right it. And it’s the same with, you know, humans and relationships. We. I did an episode about connection. Actually one of the three episodes, it’s up there now is about connection and about how connection is the thing that we need to be in order to be well emotionally well is that we need other people.

[00:12:21] We have open loop, limbic system. Yes. We’re hanging on my bed and we, yeah, we’re reconfiguring the pillows.

[00:12:28] Tonya : [00:12:28] Yes. In this particular case, yes, and they’re great pillows. Yeah. Desire has wonderful pillows, the Bedser and inconsistent, but the pillows are all on may day.

[00:12:42] Briana cavanaugh: [00:12:42] Oh. One of the things about the beds is that they have the basis of, many of them are cement because it floods and they don’t want the beds to flow.

[00:12:50] Flood away said, let me tell you,

[00:12:52] Tonya : [00:12:52] your bed is way better than my bed. Is it? Oh yeah. Oh yeah, it’s your bed is soft. Mine is. [00:13:00] Yours. Your bed is, it’s firm. It’s still soft minus just firm. And when I wake up every day, I’m stiff.

[00:13:08] Briana cavanaugh: [00:13:08] I’m sorry.

[00:13:09] Tonya : [00:13:09] It’s not uncomfortable necessarily, but I like  or . Well, I’m usually not sleeping in the bed, usually.

[00:13:20] Actually, have I done? No, I have done stuff in beds, but I’ve been doing stuff and other furniture. Yeah.

[00:13:30] Briana cavanaugh: [00:13:30] Here there’s, there’s dungeon and there’s beds around the hot tub, and there’s, yeah. Gosh, chairs and,

[00:13:37] Tonya : [00:13:37] and even the bed I was on last night was. Six of those cubes. Tension straps up in the dungeon top.

[00:13:47] Everyone. Yeah, I do have an appointment on a beach bed tomorrow afternoon though. Oh, that sounds fun. I’ve never been in a bee suit.

[00:13:55] Briana cavanaugh: [00:13:55] Tell me about your adventures here. So was last year your first [00:14:00] year?

[00:14:00] Tonya : [00:14:00] Last year was my first year. And I had some great adventures and we had a great adventure. We did, and it was in the same room, right yet was in this room, in this very room on this very bad,

[00:14:12] Briana cavanaugh: [00:14:12] and there were five of us, or five of us.

[00:14:14] That was my first five. Some I was, it was all kid time. Yeah. It was our first, our first five five for the first five, and I was just talking to, I was caught talking to Cooper S Beckett earlier today, and since he has a podcast, I feel good about talking about him dropping his name.

[00:14:32] Tonya : [00:14:32] Yeah. Right. And we were talking about how.

[00:14:35] Briana cavanaugh: [00:14:35] Having odd numbers of people can be really good because then you have an extra set of hands, right? Like if you’re, you know, doing the kind of traditional good,

[00:14:44] Tonya : [00:14:44] it can be bad. It’s, I mean, it can be a lot of things, but I was sharing, very enjoying our interactions. It was great time. I believe there’s some video out there of the good time I was having.

[00:14:56] Briana cavanaugh: [00:14:56] That’s right. We had a great time [00:15:00] and. And as a result of meeting last year, we, uh, have been in touch throughout the year. Yeah. And, and are like friends and stuff. Yeah.

[00:15:09] Tonya : [00:15:09] Like legit friend, like legit, like we talk outside of seeing each other once he let me talk, you know, via chat. But yeah, I don’t talk to anybody on the phone anymore.

[00:15:19] Who the **** does that? So 1990s.

[00:15:25] Briana cavanaugh: [00:15:25] I mean, so, but you’ve, you have other adventures. Oh, yes, yes. Tell just maybe you could tell me all stories you wouldn’t tell me about last night and the dungeon. So one night of, one night of this week that we do the sex vacation is a dungeon night. And, uh, that was last night.

[00:15:45] Tell their stories, Tanya.

[00:15:46] Tonya : [00:15:46] Well, let me tell you first the story of my day two in which I had more sex with more people in day two than I did all of the entire week. Last year,

[00:16:04] [00:16:00] um, I had a threesome in the afternoon, which did not involve any PIV. That’s penis and vagina for the, um,

[00:16:14] Briana cavanaugh: [00:16:14] as yet uninitiated well.

[00:16:16] Tonya : [00:16:16] I didn’t

[00:16:16] want to say on initiated, but yeah, and really I, all I had to do was lie there and enjoy myself. So produce a lot of fluids.

[00:16:29] Briana cavanaugh: [00:16:29] Oh, wait and I some type of squirting workshop?

[00:16:32] Tonya : [00:16:32] No, no, this was, this was the squirting workshop was.

[00:16:35] Yesterday morning, this was on Sunday, Sunday afternoon after we had all the lovely make outs in the pool, I went off with one of those couples to their room and they put their hands and fists into my vagina and made me expel liquids. And then, um, my, and then his Cock went and my mouth, and then, and my fingers and his button, he was [00:17:00] more interested in my fingers in his butt than my cock and his mouth.

[00:17:03] And then. Almost my whole hand was in his ass, but we had to back off a little bit. And uh, we need to revisit that before the week ends. So that was great fun. And there was a, there was a lube puppet. That was a very interesting, that’s only a bit. So we use the stuff called J lube. Which apparently is powdered lube used for birthing calves?

[00:17:35] Well, she got overexcited, he was on his knees and she got over excited and just dumped a huge mound of this powdered lube on his ass and then was just pouring water over it and it gets really sticky and it kind of looks and feels like snot and sticks to your hands. So there was like the hand puppet.

[00:17:55] Motion with lube and yeah, it was, it was [00:18:00] gross and entertaining. Apparently you are not supposed to get it in your *****. They said many, many times do not get this in your *****.

[00:18:09] So one time

[00:18:10] Briana cavanaugh: [00:18:10] I, years ago now. Um, yeah, and it was almost impossible to get out because it’s, the thing is it gets more lobe-y with more fluids.

[00:18:21] We have more water and I was just like, what the ****? Why did you put this in here anyway, permanent loop. I was like, this is terrible. I’m like, I kept like. I’m pulling it out by the fistful. It was not, um,

[00:18:32] Tonya : [00:18:32] It was gross.

[00:18:33] Briana cavanaugh: [00:18:33] I was kind of gross in that way. But, but the play up until then had been quite fun and satisfying.

[00:18:39] Tonya : [00:18:39] And this was at the end, and it was. You know, we were just laughing. There was a lot of laughter, which I love. Laughter during sex. Yeah. Sex is fun. Lots of fun. Yeah. It should all be fine. Yeah. That was in the afternoon. Oh,

[00:18:56] Briana cavanaugh: [00:18:56] so hold on. So moral of the story. Don’t put J when your *****.

[00:19:00] [00:18:59] Tonya : [00:18:59] Yes. Do not do that. And don’t.

[00:19:02] Pour a big pilot just for water that’s going to get everywhere and they mix up properly and all of that. Otherwise it’s going to totally impromptu, which, you know, anal fisting really shouldn’t be anyways, but you know, we were going with them. So that was in the afternoon. And then I went and had dinner and blah, blah, blah, and somehow in the, Oh, the girl orgy was supposed to be on the rooftop.

[00:19:29] Next hot tub, but it decided to downpour. So the new location was one of these fancy schmancy suites over here that have the pool and the hot tub

[00:19:41] Briana cavanaugh: [00:19:41] and one of the big sweet she is.

[00:19:43] Tonya : [00:19:43] So girl orgy didn’t happen, but we all sat around and, and talked for a long time. And then all of the ladies got, or female bodied persons.

[00:19:57] Since I can’t think of everybody’s pronouns or [00:20:00] whatever in this moment, we all got in the pool and we were jumping in the pool and bouncing our ***ties. With our there are hands in the air and talking about calling the corners. And someone looked out the window and was laughing at us and I’m like, you’ve heard of devil, vagina magic.

[00:20:15] This is pool boob magic calling the corners. So that was fun. And then we went inside.


[00:20:22] Briana cavanaugh: [00:20:22] So there’s some, there’s some sex magic happening. –

[00:20:25] Tonya : [00:20:25] And then, uh, so a couple of the ladies who had come for their Gore, who had joined us for the girl, or gee, that didn’t happen,

[00:20:35] Briana cavanaugh: [00:20:35] have to make the decision between join and come.

[00:20:38] Tonya : [00:20:38] Well spotted. They laughed. And then next thing I know, there are seven people in the room. And, uh, we’re ****ing in various forms. There was some, or I think seven. Cause there were that couple and that couple and me [00:21:00] and that couple came. The couple I played with earlier in that Oh one the, the female, half of that couple was already there.

[00:21:08] And then she went to get the male part. So two, three couples and me. So seven. So I had my first, I mean, essentially it was a seven-some, you know, we weren’t all ****ing each other, but we were, you know, bouncing back. We were changing stage, you know, this **** went to that *****, to that mouth and you know, so everybody had a good time.

[00:21:34] Good time was had by all. Yes, yes, yes.

[00:21:36] Briana cavanaugh: [00:21:36] Important in these situations, like, yes, I feel like it’s easy for. This kind of thing to go awry. Like I think there’s lots of stories about, Oh, you know, this is hard and that’s hard. And the other thing is hard, and sometimes it’s good, hard as good. Um, but, but I think here more often than not, I hear about people having a good time in all of [00:22:00] these different configurations and having it not be drama.

[00:22:03] And I feel like I don’t very often hear about, you know, being super dramatic and. Well, you could analyze that more another time. But I really enjoy that people are, you know, they’re self-responsible and safer sex conversations are the norm.

[00:22:19] Tonya : [00:22:19] And in both of these characters, we, at the beginning, we had the, the STI, safer sex talk and talked about barriers and, and stuff.

[00:22:31] And it was, it was all good. It was just very, very quick. And. And then, you know, we were adults and you know, we had adult fun and everything was fine,

[00:22:41] Briana cavanaugh: [00:22:41] and people make choices, right? You have your super conversation and then you make, make choices about what, you know, how you want to play and what you want to do.

[00:22:47] And, um, I know that, um, my sweetheart and I played with a couple earlier today and we have different [00:23:00] levels of safer sex practices that we normally do. And I, I just want to talk about this for a minute, cause I feel like, you know, we’re talking about all of this sex and I just wanna mention, say for sex, um, you know, and, and how that works or how, you know, one of the possible configurations.

[00:23:14] So, um, the couple that we played with, they. They tend to, and I’m not using names, so you have no idea who I’m talking about, but they tend to not use barriers for oral sex. But Jacques and I do 10 you know, that’s one of our agreements, is that we use barriers for oral sex. And so when they play with us, they use barriers.

[00:23:34] And last year there was a little conversation and it wasn’t stressful at all, but there was a little conversation and I’m like, Oh, maybe they won’t want to play with us because we use barriors. But as it turned out this year, they brought their own. Like dental dams. And I was like super thrilled. It felt very honoring that other people were like, Oh yeah, this is how they play.

[00:23:51] And so we want to play with them. And so, you know, we bring our toys and we all play together and yeah.

[00:23:57] Tonya : [00:23:57] And that same couple, I played with them last year, [00:24:00] and also they were a part of this, the group of seven, um, on sunday night. Yeah. Yeah. So very, very good people. And I feel like it’s, there’s a lot of.

[00:24:12] Briana cavanaugh: [00:24:12] I guess ease and grace in this process where here at least it feels like people are really assuming the best about each other and really mutually supportive and it’s very delicious.

[00:24:24] Tonya : [00:24:24] Yeah, and I had a safer sex discussion with somebody in the pool, you know, before we make made out. And I’m HSV two positive, which is typically um, genital herpes. But I’ve never had an outbreak. I had cold sores when I was a child, you know, but not since I was 11 or 12, never in my adult life. And so many people have one form of HSV, or though I don’t have HSV one, which is typically oral. But you know, when you discuss that, so many people have HSV and don’t know it because they’ve never had an outbreak.

[00:25:00] [00:24:59] I’ve, and I know for, yeah, absolutely. Never been tested. So we were discussing that. And the thing is, I have not had a test since before last year because it’s expensive, you know? And there is a level of privilege that is involved with getting tested regularly. And I totally believe in doing it. And you know, if it were lower costs or if it was free, ****ing get tested all the time.

[00:25:23] But unfortunately, I don’t have that capability. So, um, we just

[00:25:28] Briana cavanaugh: [00:25:28] Some test

[00:25:28] are easier

[00:25:29] to get like, yeah. Like HIV tests, very easy to get. Yeah. It just be tests much harder and much more expensive,

[00:25:36] Tonya : [00:25:36] much more expensive. And sometimes you have to really, you almost have to bully the doctors and the saying, look, I want this ****ing test, you know, because I consider myself high risk, you know, cause I do because I can see  people.

[00:25:48] Briana cavanaugh: [00:25:48] Yeah. Yeah. You know, and one of the ways that we take care of ourselves, those of us who like to have sex with multiple partners, whether it’s, you know, you know, one to a 50 whatever, is that we get [00:26:00] tested and we use barriers and we take care of ourselves and each other

[00:26:03] Tonya : [00:26:03] and we ha, and so the person I was discussing this with, I mentioned, I’m like, I’m sorry, I haven’t been tested since last year.

[00:26:09] And he said, the fact that you have an awareness about your status and that you are comfortable talking about it. And your risk level really tells me all I need to know. You know, because U S even if you know, I told you. I was just tested and I tested negative for everything. You know, certain amount of time ago there’s, and you know, whether I’ve had partners between them or whether I have not had partners.

[00:26:37] There is still, with every sexual act, with or without a barrier, there is some level of risk, right? Because barriers protect against some things and don’t protect against others, and some things are more difficult to use than others. There are all sorts of risks, but you know what? The risks aren’t all S there’s a risk of [00:27:00] you might have the flu or a cold or strep throat or something else contagious, you know, that has nothing to do with any kind of barrier practice, but we didn’t talk about that.

[00:27:12] You know, we don’t talk about, Oh, I was just sneezing my head off for three hours this morning and woke up all full of snot. And you know, I could give you something that could turn into pneumonia, but God ****ing forbid there’s something wrong with our genitals. And you know, Mo, there are things that are serious that happened.

[00:27:31] Hepatitis is very bad. Syphilis can be very bad. HIV can be very bad. But. With the drugs and the technology that we have now, none of them necessarily have to be a death sentence. They are, and that’s why the vocabulary has changed from STD, which is sexually transmitted diseases to sexually transmitted infections [00:28:00] because infections can be treated, infections can be cured, you know?

[00:28:06] Some of the things go away themselves. I have had an HPV infection. I didn’t have words. I didn’t have the strain that caused cancer. I hadn’t on, uh, an abnormal pap and all I had was some cervical dysplasia. They took a biopsy and I said it was HPV. I don’t remember what strain it was. And then that’s the only abnormal pap I’ve ever had because my body cleared it.

[00:28:32] You know, I didn’t have to do anything. So everything involved. common. Yeah. And that’s very, everything in life involves a level of risk.

[00:28:42] Briana cavanaugh: [00:28:42] And I wouldn’t say something about HPV, which is that there are tests for women, but there are no tests for penis having people. And so there’s a lot of stigma about HPV.

[00:28:55] I think partly cause it’s genital words and like some of the strains cause genital warts and there’s that. [00:29:00] But there’s also like. The burden of HPV is entirely on women because there are no tests for men. And, uh, I don’t even know what to do about that, but I just want someone to be like, yep, we’re making an HPV test for men.

[00:29:14] Tonya : [00:29:14] I think, I mean, HPV can cause cancer a lot of things. Things cause cancer. Cancer is an evil motherfucker. And of course, we don’t know. Want to open the door and welcome it. We want to prevent it where we can.

[00:29:26] Briana cavanaugh: [00:29:26] Yeah.

[00:29:27] Tonya : [00:29:27] You know, but it’s, I, like I said, everything has risks. Driving a vehicle has a risk. Flying in a plane has a rescue walking out your front ****ing door has a rescue, can slip and fall and hit your head open and you’re dead.

[00:29:41] Briana cavanaugh: [00:29:41] But the important part of the risk is. Is something called risk assessment. Exactly. And then, and then deciding like how much risk is okay. Because some people are okay with some risk and some people are okay with a lot of risks. And one of the ways we know that is that teenagers are often okay with a lot of risk.

[00:30:00] [00:30:00] Right? And some of us as we age are, are okay with less risks. And so the conversation earlier where like Jocques and I use barriers for oral sex and the other couple doesn’t. That is entirely about risk assessment. One of the conversations is there’s no, there’s no moral value. It doesn’t make either of us better or worse or anything.

[00:30:20] Tonya : [00:30:20] And it’s just the level of risk you’re willing to take. And.

[00:30:24] Briana cavanaugh: [00:30:24] Individually, but also it’s a level of risk that Jack and I agreed on. Right? And so as part of respecting our partnership, right, this is what we decided that we wanted to do. And so, so that’s what we do. And I, and I feel like. It’s not about, Oh, you should do a certain amount of thing because lots of people want to, you know, like for example, they get into new relationships and they immediately want to get rid of their barrier protection for sex.

[00:30:50] And you know, you could do that or not do that or whatever. But the point is to have a real assessment about whether that’s something that’s actually going to work for your [00:31:00] physical and emotional health. Because there is, you know, in addition to the physical health of like, you could transmit or receive an infection.

[00:31:08] Like the other piece of risk assessment is how do you feel about that? Right? When you think about what happens if you catch something or transmit something, because if you can catch it, you can give it and you can give it before, you know. So again, like disease transmission or infection transmission is not a moral issue, right?

[00:31:27] It’s an, it’s an like. If you can catch a cold, you can give a cold right before, you know it’s happening. And so instead of this moral idea that like, Oh, only dirty people get chlamydia or so, whatever, whatever, whatever. It’s like, we really need to look at, you know, are we okay with our level of risk and are we going to be able to take care of it and manage it?

[00:31:47] You know, do we have good enough health care to be able to get the tests and do the things? And it’s, you know, I feel like it’s more complicated than, you know, what, it feel really good to use a condom or not use a condom right.

[00:31:58] Tonya : [00:31:58] Sure.

[00:31:59] And so [00:32:00] anyway, it’s a complicated conversation that I want to encourage people to really do some research about so that you’re not caught off guard and that when you go to these situations, you’re ready so that you can have a good time.

[00:32:11] Briana cavanaugh: [00:32:11] Right. And that’s the goal ultimately. Right. Of having sex is it have a good time? And I know that there’s this moralistic stance that like the whole idea that, um, having sex is about having, did you want to say something? Jocques. Jocques opened his mouth. I thought he might be ready to speak on podcasts, but no, no.

[00:32:31] Tonya : [00:32:31] He’s like, Oh my God, he’s, and then he started making terrified faces that we were going to try to force them to talk . Currently silent, silent partner,

[00:32:42] Briana cavanaugh: [00:32:42] silent to the audience, and ms. Uh, but, but the idea, uh, or you’re talking about the moralistic idea that, that the reason to have sex is have children like that I know that there’s a moralistic thing about that, but it’s not, that’s not the biology of sex. [00:33:00] Right?

[00:33:00] Like the reason that people want to have sex is, is partly to reproduce, but also because it feels good. So, and part of the conversation about fat sex for me is that I want fat people to feel good and feel like they are just as entitled to feeling good in their bodies and sexually as anyone else, including as entitled as sexist and people.

[00:33:24] Absolutely. And so the conversation around desire, like I started. Talking to one of the hosts on just out Dylan as well as other outing people. I mean, they have a podcast and you know, they’ve talked some about this and about fat and sex. And so we feel good about that. And we decided to make a fat and accessibility, uh, channel on our, on our chat to talk about this kind of stuff.

[00:33:46] Cause I was like, Hey, this, this is not like, I really want this to be more fat focus, fat centered, fat, inclusive. And so we began to have conversations about that. And as that’s happened, [00:34:00] people like come out of the woodwork, out of the woodwork to have these conversations and fat people come out to talk about it.

[00:34:07] And then our thinner allies like Justin and others have come to me and been like, Oh, I have these great resources for you. So hopefully you’ll be hearing a lot more from all of these amazing, like fat centered sex positive resources. I was all a long. Yeah. Anyway, I think it’s important and I feel like, I think it’s important to say like every single time we talk about sex, to talk about safer sex and, and so that, you know, we get both sides of it, we get the pleasure and we get the responsibility.

[00:34:40] Cause I think both of those things are. Are important.

[00:34:43] Tonya : [00:34:43] I actually am not a fan of the term safer sex. I like risk aware, so, and it’s like with kink risk aware, consensual kink in a rack. You know, it’s, I like putting you on the rack. Okay.

[00:34:59]Briana cavanaugh: [00:34:59] [00:35:00] So I know even when we want you to tell the stories about Tristan, do you want to tell the stories of a podcast about your experience last night?

[00:35:05] Tonya : [00:35:05] Oh yeah, we didn’t get to that dude. Wait, let’s talk about that. Okay, so how much time do we have so I can know how much I need to bridge the story because I could, I was in the dungeon for. I dunno, four hours. I could literally take about four hours.


[00:35:22] Briana cavanaugh: [00:35:22] Tell me the story minute by minute by minute. What did we did like another 10 or 15 minutes.

[00:35:28] Okay. Okay. So maybe pick your top like three stories.

[00:35:32] Tonya : [00:35:32] Well, to sum up, it started before the dungeon because I served last year. Oh yeah. Definitely started. Oh my gosh. But again, that’s another thing that would take forever. So. I actually, I’ve been a huge fan and follower of Tristan Taramino for a long, long, long time.

[00:35:52] And Tristin has, excuse me. Yes. Sex out lab, sexoutloud.com. I think. I don’t, I don’t ever [00:36:00] go to the website cause it’s just in my, it’s in my podcast app. Awesome. We love . She’s the best. She’s amazing. Um, and she knows it as well. She should. So, so I’ve been following her a long time. And Tristan is the reason that I am swingset because I’ve been listening to the swingset podcasts for years and heard all the live of recordings that desire.

[00:36:23] And every year when Cooper cries during his podcast about being with. His people and his tribe and how wonderful it is to be here. I would be at my work, listening to my podcast, sitting in my cubicle crying right along with him, knowing that these are my people and I need to be here. How to sweet, sensitive creature.

[00:36:43] He’s a good guy. I love, but then it was announced that Tristan, in 2017 it was announced that Tristan was going to be at desire. And I didn’t find out until September desires in November. I’m like, how the **** am I gonna come up with the money to get there? How many ****s do I have to suck? How much time do I [00:37:00] have?

[00:37:00] It’d be like 92 ****s a day or something.

[00:37:02] Briana cavanaugh: [00:37:02] So that is a lot. It’s a lot of tick. So I’m  above your, yeah,

[00:37:12] Tonya : [00:37:12] so I didn’t make it to desire in 2017 but then that was our first year. Yeah, well, I mean, I could have met you a year earlier if I’d suck them any ****s, but it just didn’t happen. And I don’t have that much blood to give.

[00:37:26] So her live recording desire podcasts didn’t come out till February. So it was in February when I found out, Oh my God, she’s going to be a Desire and 2018 I need to make this happen. I have many months. So I did the things and sucke the ****s and sold some blood and whatever, whatever. And. Got the money to come to desire because Tristan was here.

[00:37:48] So really it was, it was all about meaning Tristan. So I met Tristan, we had some great times together, and I thought we created a little bond, [00:38:00] but you know how it is. You meet people and things can be one sided. You know, I mean, you know, we all have our idols and our heroes and stuff, and you feel one way towards them, but they have a lot of people in their lives.

[00:38:13] They may not feel the same, sometimes they’ve never met you. And so they have no idea what the hell I’m talking about. So we, we met and we had spent some time together and it was sweet. It had a dungeon scene and it was wonderful. And then, and then

[00:38:26] Briana cavanaugh: [00:38:26] Tanya was like walking on clouds a story. It was so sweet.

[00:38:29] Tonya : [00:38:29] It was so cute to watch. I’m still walking on clouds from last year and of course this year. And then, you know, when she left the resort last year on the last day, she asked me for my phone number and I’m grinning. You can’t see it, but you can probably hear it. And I’m grinning the biggest ****ing grin because Tristan asked for my phone number.

[00:38:52] So she and I kept touch over the year and, and I actually saw her in Orlando a few months back. [00:39:00] And so we’ve kept in touch. And then this year, um. I volunteered to be the demo bottom for her G-spot and squirting demonstration yesterday morning. And prior to that she came to me and said that she would like me to serve her in the dungeon for,

[00:39:22] Briana cavanaugh: [00:39:22] for all of dungeon evening,

[00:39:25] Tonya : [00:39:25] for the whole evening. I was going to, well, even before yesterday, I had seen her at dinner and she said, am I gonna see you on the dungeon? I was like, well, you know, I thought I’d give other people a chance. And she said, **** that. So well, yes. Yes ma’am.

[00:39:40] Absolutely. If you want my presence in the dungeon apps, absolutely, I will be there. I mean, I was going to be there, but I was just going to watch. I’m so glad I did not do that. So she asked me if I would serve her. She said that we’ll do our scene first and then you’re going to be in my service for the rest of the evening, you know, fetching or whatever.

[00:39:57] I’m like, yes ma’am. Of course. And then she had the [00:40:00] G spot and squirting. Workshop and demo. And then, you know, she ****ed me and made me squirt in front of a room full of people. And how was that for you? Oh my God. So that was my first sexual experience with her. She and I had never been sexual prior to that.

[00:40:21] And it’s, you know, she’s just somebody I wanted to meet. I wanted to be in her room. Or bit, I mean, of course, leading up to it last year, I’m like, Oh my God, you guys, I’m going to go, if I just  I’m going trust to tear me up. I’m going to **** the entire swingset podcast. I’m gonna **** everybody. And of course that didn’t happen, but whatever.

[00:40:42] So, you know, Oh, I just very small side note. There’s somebody else in the room who has said before, I want to **** everyone.

[00:40:53] And he’s very cute, but he’s also very silent. Anyway. Well, very small side. So my [00:41:00] first sexual encounter with her was in front of everybody, and it was wonderful except that, and I don’t accept that as this isn’t, but what happened was I had an orgasm and she said, did you come without permission? And. And the thing is, I had my third ever G-spot orgasm without any clitoral stimulation.

[00:41:22] And the first was two days before. And when I was with that first couple in the afternoon and the, or the second rather. And then the first was only two weeks ago. So,

[00:41:34] Briana cavanaugh: [00:41:34] so this is a bunch of new experiences.

[00:41:36] Tonya : [00:41:36] Yes. Yes. New new experience.

[00:41:38] Briana cavanaugh: [00:41:38] So let’s pause. Let’s pause and, and just talk about that for a second, which is your 44 yes.

[00:41:46] To me. Just me. And even after being very sexual for a very long time. Right. And you know, at least been an open relationships for 13 years or, you know,

[00:41:58] Tonya : [00:41:58] like pretty much always. [00:42:00] Yeah.

[00:42:00] Briana cavanaugh: [00:42:00] So all this time, and even still after all of this time, there’s new things to explore, not just new people, but like your body is working in a whole different way of a sudden.

[00:42:09] Tonya : [00:42:09] Yeah. Well, I had a hysterectomy. I evicted my uterus in December of 2017 that’s exactly how I feel about a get the **** out you janky piece of flesh. And prior to that, part of the reason why the uterus got the boot was I had gotten to, I had a condition called Edina meiosis, where it’s like endometriosis or an endometriosis.

[00:42:35] The endometrium, which is the lining of your uterus and endometriosis. It grows outside the uterus on other organs with aDino meiosis, it grows into the uterine walls. So. You’re several years back. In 2008 I had an ablation, which essentially, you know, burns out the endometrium. Well, I don’t know if I had the condition then, if [00:43:00] this caused it, but because it was in my uterine walls.

[00:43:04] When I had orgasms, it got to the point that it was like a Charlie horse and my uterus. That was so painful. It felt like I had been donkey kicked in my uterus. And when I have orgasms are very big and very powerful as you witnessed. And um, and I have aftershocks. So when I have the aftershocks, I would get secondary cramps still.

[00:43:30] So after, after orgasming I’d be in so much pain and I’m, I’m a kinky motherfucker. I like pain. I like pain in my *****. When I have sex, but this was, no, this was terrible.

[00:43:43] Briana cavanaugh: [00:43:43] There’s pain and then there’s pain, consensual pain, and then there’s **** my uterus pain.

[00:43:49] Tonya : [00:43:49] Exactly. Yeah. So I lost a sex drive for a long time because it just ****ing hurt.

[00:43:54] My husband could **** me and. Well, he could make love to me [00:44:00] and be tender and sweet and gentle, and that’s fine every once in a while. But I like it rough. I want to be rammed and ****ed, you know, very aggressively, and he couldn’t do that anymore, so just wasn’t satisfying for me anymore. It was still important.

[00:44:17] Yeah. Yeah. So utero, the uterus finally got the eviction and. It took me a while to, I’m still easing back into my body. It’s been almost two years, because even though it’s not like that anymore, when I have those big orgasms, I’m still waiting for the pain to come.

[00:44:37] Briana cavanaugh: [00:44:37] So sort of. Post uterus PTSD. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[00:44:41] Tonya : [00:44:41] Like, especially when I, when I’ve had the really bad orgasms the last couple of days, or, well, I haven’t had sex since that one day, but anyways, those were really big orgasm. Wow. I guess you had sex yesterday morning with . Which Tristan’s  fist, and then with her [00:45:00] foot and the dungeon. But we’re going back to that.

[00:45:02] Um, these scenes are great stories. Everybody should hear these stories. Excellent sex, bedtime story, very rambly. I apologize for the lack of linear, you know, whatever. I mean, your narrative,

[00:45:18] Briana cavanaugh: [00:45:18] how often can we get a really linear narrative when people are just talking? It’s not a real,

[00:45:24] Tonya : [00:45:24] that’s true. That’s fair.

[00:45:25] So during the story’s great right Jacques.

[00:45:31] So yes, this G-spot orgasm is a new thing for me. I have never been a woman at any point in my life who has been able to have an orgasm from. Penetration alone. I’ve always had to have clitoral stimulation.

[00:45:49] Most women

[00:45:49] Briana cavanaugh: [00:45:49] need that. Exactly. Exactly. Well over 80% which is a lot more than most people. It’s more, it’s much more than half.

[00:45:57] Yeah, and so if you’re, you’re a person who is having sex [00:46:00] with vagina Havers, you should really consider. Whether you’re getting your colorations clitoral stimulation mashed together. Are you getting your clear, your stipulation game on you need to up that game.

[00:46:14] Tonya : [00:46:14] Yeah. Or, you know, find out what needs to happen, you know, talk to your partner and also over the last, I don’t know, I don’t, I can’t remember how long ago it started.

[00:46:27] It’s been more difficult. Because it’s like, it became more complicated. I had to have this kind of pressure for this amount of time and this spot, and then this and this. And you really couldn’t vary from it, you know? But the thing is, I, it’s not like I knew exactly what the pattern was. Exactly. You gotta do this for this long and this, it’s fluid.

[00:46:48] So it just became very difficult. So. Orgasm hasn’t been a focus for me for a really long time. I don’t really masturbate because I have carpal tunnel and my wrist and vibrators just weren’t doing [00:47:00] it for me until I got, this is not a paid endorsement. I have this, okay. A Lilo, Sona Cruz and those alone.

[00:47:08] Yes. It’s so pretty. And Lilo is a problematic company for reasons that I’m not going to get into, cause quite honestly, I don’t remember. You can do some research on your own, but it is amazing. It’s my. Five second orgasm, vibrate her squirt gush, and I can just keep coming and coming and coming. It’s the one that has like the sort of sucky womanizer.

[00:47:29] Yeah, it’s going in there. The womanizer had the, was the first one in the market and now there, there are lots of others now besides the womanizer, but it’s the most well known. So it’s very Sosa, the one I have. So yeah. So at the womanizer, it’s my friend. Oh my God. Also, not a paid endorsement, but Oh my God, they should have a tread.

[00:47:50] Briana cavanaugh: [00:47:50] Like if you like toys and you’ve tried vibrating toys and they’re like, you know, you like them or you don’t, but you’re interested in trying toys. I definitely recommend one of that.

[00:47:58] Tonya : [00:47:58] This is not, it’s not [00:48:00] buzzy. It’s not rumbly. It’s just, it’s not. It’s sucky, but not, it’s just different. It’s. Amazing.

[00:48:10] Briana cavanaugh: [00:48:10] So her seal of endorsement  just do it.

[00:48:15] Tonya : [00:48:15] Um, so I was not, and the thing is, uh, G-spot orgasm. Feels different than a clitoral orgasm. I know the precursors for my orgasms. I know what it feels like. I’m like, yes, yes. Just “right, right, right, right, right, right, right, stop. Whatever you do!” It’s almost it. You know? I know what that feels like so. Um, she, you know, had her fingers inside me stimulating my G spot and I can squirt without having an orgasm.

[00:48:49] You know, it’s completely independent. I mean, if I’m squirting, I kinda like to have an orgasm cause it feels, it’s almost like what I imagine blue balls, if that’s a real thing, feels [00:49:00] like, you know, um, but just don’t feel complete so I can do it before I orgasm. But generally if I’m squirting and orgasms pointing to happen.

[00:49:11] So I started squirting and then next thing I knew I was coming and it just, it just happened. I didn’t, I didn’t know it was going to happen. I wasn’t prepared. I wasn’t trying. It just happened. And so then I was in trouble cause I came to that.

[00:49:30] So then fast forward to a few hours later. And dungeon nights. She told me to be there at eight I was there at seven 30 because you know,

[00:49:40] Briana cavanaugh: [00:49:40] being on time is very good idea if you’re being in service. Absolutely.

[00:49:44] Tonya : [00:49:44] And really the trick is you just have to be there before they get there. And. She said she probably wasn’t going to be there until after eight actually, but I didn’t care and I want to take the chance.

[00:49:57] So I was there ready and waiting. I had already prepped the [00:50:00] dungeon staff. I told them I am in service to Tristan tonight, so you know, I have access to this area because you know, they rope off the dungeon.

[00:50:08] Briana cavanaugh: [00:50:08] Yep.

[00:50:09] Tonya : [00:50:09] And not just anybody is allowed in there, you know? So every morning everyone asked me, well, what exactly does that mean?

[00:50:17] And I said, I don’t know. I do whatever she tells me to. Well, like what? I’m like, I literally, I don’t know. She asked me to be in service to her. I said that I would be said

[00:50:27] Briana cavanaugh: [00:50:27] I said

[00:50:28] yes.

[00:50:28] Tonya : [00:50:28] I said, that’s it. That’s all I know now. And then I said, I’m going to be doing a scene with her. I will be her first scene and then she will be seeing others.

[00:50:37] Well, what kind of scene are you going to do? I don’t know. I have told you all of the information that I have. I said yes, and really that’s all she wrote. So when she arrived. We went to our area and got set up and she said, you’re going to sit here, and we discussed my body and what it can and can’t do, which you [00:51:00] know, I have arthritis in my lower back, at least my right hip, my right knee, probably my left knee also, and probably my left hip, but.

[00:51:10] The right side has been scanned. The left side has not, cause I have more problems with my right side than not. So, you know, we talked about that and we talked about what her expectations were and that, you know, I was going to serve her and I call her ma’am and she was going to put me in a collar and was I okay with that?

[00:51:31] And of course I was okay with that.

[00:51:32] Briana cavanaugh: [00:51:32] Hello

[00:51:33] Welcome to Tonya’s wet

[00:51:34] dreams!

[00:51:34] Um,

[00:51:36] Tonya : [00:51:36] hello? Um, so. She seated me and she put the collar on and she said, you know, it’s not like no eye contact face down. You know, I want you to stay connected with me. So then, you know, we did some spanking and she got me some really good spankings. I thought I had a bruise.

[00:51:59] But [00:52:00] I don’t, I had been sitting on my butts. I’m not real certain if I do or not. I don’t see, no, I didn’t see it earlier. I don’t want to hold bruises on my butt for very long anymore. I mean, unless you really like really. Give me like serious spankings.

[00:52:20] Briana cavanaugh: [00:52:20] I mean, try to, do you need to ask for some marks?

[00:52:25] Tonya : [00:52:25] Well, it’s, the marks are on my heart, and that’s the important ones. Um, so, so we did some spankings, and then I was in a. I started off in a position that was comfortable for a short time and then we changed her different position and then a different position. And then I was at a point I couldn’t stand anymore.

[00:52:43] So she told me to sit and got me some water and made sure I was comfortable and she went and got her first person. And the instruction was that when she told me to, I was going to play with [00:53:00] myself. During her scene with this other person. And so the other person came in and you know, she asked them, you know, this, this, this is Tanya, and she’s in service and each night, and this is her directive, are you okay with that?

[00:53:12] So she got consent from her person as well,

[00:53:15] Briana cavanaugh: [00:53:15] and she’s getting consent from you. All along. Oh, absolutely. I want to notice that like everybody is getting consent in this scenario. Tristin a consent from Tanya, Tanya prep the dungeon folks and , which is a form of getting their consent to be in that space.

[00:53:30] Uh, and then Tristan got Tanya’s consent again with the name and the ceremony and the putting the collar on. And then Tristin that the consent of the next person that she played with, like there is so much consent happening in this all the time, and it’s important, especially if you’re going to play with multiple people and you’re sort of stacking things and interacting with multiple people.

[00:53:51] Tonya : [00:53:51] It’s a never assume. Yeah.

[00:53:53] Briana cavanaugh: [00:53:53] You never see him. You don’t assume if the person who’s coming after you has been paying any attention at all. You don’t assume that the dungeon staff has their pre-prepped [00:54:00] what’s going to happen? Like there’s a lot, there’s a lot of nobody. Nobody has any idea what it took.

[00:54:05] Tonya : [00:54:05] Except, of course she knew she had, she had a grand plan, you know, all along. But we did not know that it was on a need to know basis

[00:54:16] Briana cavanaugh: [00:54:16] and no one else needed to know exactly.

[00:54:18] Tonya : [00:54:18] So she had her first scene, which involved. Some foot worship and she had told me to touch myself, and then her scene involved taking the person outside of the scene area and before she left, I asked, may I rest my wrist?

[00:54:35] I didn’t ask, can I stop touching myself? I asked, may I rest my wrist? Because when she and I were first setting up and negotiating, because that’s essentially what we were doing. It was just a conversation, but we were negotiating. She’s like, this is what I expect from you. Are you okay with this? Are you okay with this?

[00:54:54] And she was adamant, absolutely adamant that at any [00:55:00] point, if I became physically uncomfortable or had any pain or any issues with anything. I was to let her know immediately and she said, because if you can’t serve me in the way that I need to be served, then that displeases me.

[00:55:18] Briana cavanaugh: [00:55:18] So, and that’s, that is a hallmark of a really good top, good Dom.

[00:55:23] Tonya : [00:55:23] Absolute. They don’t break their toys. Exactly. Exactly. I asked her, I didn’t ask her if I could stop touching myself. I asked her if I could rest my wrist because I have carpal tunnel. And you know, as a fat girl, it’s not easy to access parts. There’s a reach situation and then you got to move stuff out of the way and

[00:55:43] Briana cavanaugh: [00:55:43] We need better toys for fat pussies.

[00:55:45] Tonya : [00:55:45] Yeah. You know, and this was just my finger. She had asked if I had a vibrator with me because her intention was for me to use that. And I said, well. I have my five second orgasm, vibrant. And she said, Oh no, that won’t do. Because she wanted [00:56:00] me to be warmed up for what she was going to do to me later.

[00:56:04] And you know, she had other things to do in between that time. She could not focus on warming me up because she had other priorities. So I was to take that job and that’s how I was serving her, was warming my self phone. So I, I stopped her.

[00:56:22] Briana cavanaugh: [00:56:22] Excellent story.

[00:56:23] Tonya : [00:56:23] So I stopped touching myself and you know, they finished their scene and then the next person was someone who was a newbie Dom, who really didn’t want a scene, just wanted to talk to Tristan and me and pick our brains and ask us questions as seasoned kinksters, you know? So she was giving her experiences at the top, and I was giving mine as a bottom and submissive and also as a switch, you know, there was a lot of question and answer back and forth.

[00:57:00] [00:56:59] So after he was done. There wasn’t anybody else on her list, so she decided, yeah, I’ll let you people, because people are scared of her and intimidated by her.

[00:57:14] Briana cavanaugh: [00:57:14] I shouldn’t put my name on the list.

[00:57:15] Tonya : [00:57:15] You should have put your name on the list. Her list is going to get really full up, and so I think that’s why I was going to, you know, bow out, give other people a chance, but weren’t afraid of her.

[00:57:28] Briana cavanaugh: [00:57:28] They were like, Oh yeah, man, I’m going to. Whenever I’m going

[00:57:31] Tonya : [00:57:31] to be on Tristin’s list,

[00:57:32] Briana cavanaugh: [00:57:32] I’m not seeing what, just an, yeah.

[00:57:34] Tonya : [00:57:34] So, um, so there wasn’t anybody on the list yet. So she took that opportunity to saran wrap me to a bowl

[00:57:43] Briana cavanaugh: [00:57:43] like you do. Yeah.

[00:57:44] Tonya : [00:57:44] Yeah. You know, I get here, um, with my arms to my side, I was sitting on like a cube with my back to a pillar and. Layers and layers of saran wrap around, around, around, around, around. I couldn’t move.

[00:57:58] Briana cavanaugh: [00:57:58] That’s brilliant.

[00:57:59] Tonya : [00:57:59] And she [00:58:00] wanted me to touch myself, but I’m like, eh. So she had given me a dildoe. She’s like, try to possess, she’s like, can you, can you touch yourself with your foot? And I’m like, my body doesn’t know. So she had stuck a dildo. Down between my legs pointed at my ***** and she’s like, well, here, rub yourself on that as as best you can.

[00:58:21] And when she, and so she had to go off to check the list and do some other things. And when she came back, she’s like, were you able? And I’m like, I got it a little bit close, but she’s like, okay, we’ll have to think of something else. And during the little interview process with the guy we talked about ears and I had mentioned that I’m afraid of knives, but I really, really like it.

[00:58:44] And I think I, I think I expressed

[00:58:47] Briana cavanaugh: [00:58:47] it to the similar to a thing that you said to Tristin last time last year,

[00:58:51] Tonya : [00:58:51] that piercings were off limits and yeah, it appears this was different though. I just explained myself [00:59:00] poorly. One of my favorite things about knife playing is when the blade is right up against your skin, and there’s the fear that you can cut, you know?

[00:59:10] And I’m not into cutting specifically if it happens incidentally, and if there’s a little bit of blood, that’s okay, but that’s not my goal. But I like that danger feeling. So she went backstage and found a knife or borrowed a pocket knife from someone with a, probably like a. I dunno, I it’s that two in three inches.

[00:59:31] Maybe like a three inch blade pocket knife blade. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not real good with measurement, you know, I mean, men, my whole life had been telling me this is eight inches,

[00:59:44] so I don’t really know how far that cause this. Yeah. Is that a foot and a half? I don’t know.

[00:59:52] So it was probably a three or four inch blade. And so she, you know, she dragged it all over my skin talking about, you know, if she [01:00:00] just said, Oh, it’s too dark to see which side of the blade is dull or sharp and you know, I could accidentally slip and cut you. And you know, and I’m totally into it. Cause I love, love, love, love knives and I just love knives themselves.

[01:00:17] Like looking at them and checking out the blades and, and feeling them and holding them. I have friends who make blades. And I used to hang out with them at the forge and I called myself like a a knife, groupie or forge groupie because I, whenever they were making blades, Oh, I’ll be right there. You know, I got to test the blades and give input on design and stuff.

[01:00:38] It was just super fun.

[01:00:39] Briana cavanaugh: [01:00:39] THe Sounds it’s cool.

[01:00:40] Tonya : [01:00:40] So. I’m totally been into it for a long, long time, and I know something that makes it can make some killer blades worry if you want, if you’re interested. Um, I don’t know as a website or anything like that. Right. But so, you know, she’s doing all of that. And then she like got down between my legs and spread my legs.

[01:00:59] And [01:01:00] was dragging the blade along my ***** lips on my inner thighs and kept going lower and lower and lower. She and was too dark, she went and got her phone, the flashlight. So she had, see, so she’s like, this is what she say, really professional or something, I don’t know. And so I’m sitting down and she had the blade all the way under my ***** where all you could see was the hillt.

[01:01:27] And I mean, I can feel it wasn’t cutting me, but I could feel the blade like on my cheeks. And then she’s like, Oh, well, I guess we’re going to have to sanitize this. That’s fine. You’ll clean it up later. And then, uh. What’s the next thing? So then she still nobody on the list. Cause you know people are dumb and they don’t know this is Tristan ****ing Taormmino.

[01:01:49] And

[01:01:49] Briana cavanaugh: [01:01:49] she’s like, don’t they know who I am? And I’m like, I know, right. Whatever. I think people get scared and, Oh yeah, absolutely don’t understand that. That. Experienced [01:02:00] players can play at any level. Absolutely. Just because you’re experienced doesn’t mean that you always need to play at the very edge of everything in the most intense, the idea of, you know, once you have experience, like with anything like.

[01:02:14] At least in my opinion, experienced players know how to play it all these different levels, right? Because you know, sometimes you have a partner who likes to play super rough and super hard, and this is a, you know, piggy slut bottom. And then sometimes like, you know, if you want to play with anyone other than that, you have to figure out how to moderate, you know, moderate and modulate your, your speed, your tempo, your warm up, your, you know, your impact, your, you know, the breadth of the toys that you play with.

[01:02:39] You know, absolutely be able to connect with other humans as humans are. Varied and diverse and like that.

[01:02:45] Tonya : [01:02:45] So then she, uh, she cut open the, um, saran wrap from around me, but she taught she recently, or she did it with [01:03:00] safety paramedics shoes, not with the knife because the knife was really dull. She, she wanted to, she’s like, this knife’s not doing them.

[01:03:06] So then. Um, she used the safety shears to cut it off of me, but then that was to get me off the pole. But then she wrapped it around me still, and she’d asked me which hand do I masturbate with? And I don’t remember exactly what happened, but she said, uh, she, we decided against that course of action and she wanted me to go find some lube.

[01:03:31] So she’s like, I have, I have a toy for you. And she had asked me to unpack the toy bag and there was a harness. Some I can tell it was some sort of harness because it had a hole for dildo, but I couldn’t quite make heads or tails of it. Um, so then she had it, and then as she was lying, I guess maybe because I was seeing it from a different perspective, I’m like, Oh, I saw that earlier and wasn’t sure what it was.

[01:03:58] I said, but I see now it’s a thigh [01:04:00] harness. And she said, it’s not for my thought. And she said, it goes on my foot. So she put this lovely uncircumcised cock dildo, or she had me put this lovely uncircumcised cock dildo on this strap on, on her foot, and then we spent, actually, maybe we were discussing positions.

[01:04:32] There was a lot of laughter because she is

[01:04:35] Tristanustin’s funny

[01:04:35] Briana cavanaugh: [01:04:35] and you guys have a good time together.

[01:04:37] Tonya : [01:04:37] Yes, but also because she wants to respect my physical limitations, of course. And she has some physical limitations of her own. Right.

[01:04:46] Briana cavanaugh: [01:04:46] We live in, we live in these meets acts. Right?

[01:04:49] Tonya : [01:04:49] So trying to figure out what position would be best, the result that what she wanted.

[01:04:56] The goal was for me to ride her foot. [01:05:00] With this dldoe, I’m shot. And trying to figure out what position was best for that. Because the thing is, I can’t really be on top because my, my hips and my knees, you know, it, I can do it for a minute, but not for long. So we discussed all these various iterations of positions and then we asked the, uh, service top next to us who had four cubes ratchet latched together to form a bed with a thin mattress on top of it. If we could borrow his station for a few moments.

[01:05:38] He was, that’s where he was doing wax play and a violet wand. So people could lie down. She asked if we could use his place space for a few minutes. While, we did this thing and she had sent me on a mission to find lube because we didn’t have any.

[01:05:55] And because sex doesn’t usually happen in the [01:06:00] dungeon. There wasn’t really lube around to be found. But finally I remember that I had some in my bag. It’ll look, cause even though I’m incredibly turned on, I mean I am so ****ing turned on, my ***** doesn’t get wet. I mean, it’s just, you know, a fact of life.

[01:06:16] It happens. You know, some. Yeah.

[01:06:18] Briana cavanaugh: [01:06:18] Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn’t.

[01:06:20] Tonya : [01:06:20] Yeah. Lubrication. Actually lubrication is welcome. And I shouldn’t say it like,

[01:06:27] Briana cavanaugh: [01:06:27] just like, you know, uh, penises get hard or they don’t get hard. And sometimes it’s like, I feel like in the whim, at the whim of the gods, right? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

[01:06:38] And so, you know, if you really want to have sex, you gotta have all the all the suppliers and lupus.

[01:06:44] Tonya : [01:06:44] It’s no indication of desire. Right. You know, and it’s, no, it’s, there’s no fault. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just bodies are weird. And dumb and

[01:06:55] Briana cavanaugh: [01:06:55] Meat sacks man meets facts.

[01:06:56] Exactly. So found some [01:07:00] lube.

[01:07:00] Tonya : [01:07:00] Figured out the position and

[01:07:03] Briana cavanaugh: [01:07:03] finally, after much to do now,

[01:07:07]Tonya : [01:07:07] there was still, there was so much do to come

[01:07:10] Briana cavanaugh: [01:07:10] and eventually very late in the game. So she was somewhere around midnight.

[01:07:18] Tonya : [01:07:18] She was lying on her back with one leg, kind of bent leg with the foot, with the dildo, and I was trying to

[01:07:25] Briana cavanaugh: [01:07:25] eventually

[01:07:26] Tonya : [01:07:26] insert it, but.

[01:07:28] It wasn’t a very so much like a real cock that sometimes doesn’t get fully erect. You know, I

[01:07:39] Briana cavanaugh: [01:07:39] or gets her act and then is not erect. And then, I mean, it just, you know, it meets sex man.

[01:07:43] Tonya : [01:07:43] Exactly. It was a little bit difficult. It was so much like real sex. It was a little difficult.

[01:07:48] Briana cavanaugh: [01:07:48] It was so much like real sex ladies and germs, you know?

[01:07:53] Tonya : [01:07:53] You know how everybody has a **** on their foot and ****, you know, so much like real sex. I mean, it was [01:08:00] uncircumcised.

[01:08:01] Briana cavanaugh: [01:08:01] Well, if you’re going to have one on your foot, you know, why would you circumcise? Exactly. So

[01:08:12] So finally and try to trick Jacques into to say something, but he’s not falling. Um,

[01:08:18] Tonya : [01:08:18] so finally there was insertion

[01:08:21] Briana cavanaugh: [01:08:21] and yay.

[01:08:25] Tonya : [01:08:25] And I was laughing, laughing, laughing, so much laughing. But lots of eye contact and the hotness. So, so, so much hotness. And you know that actually the **** actually felt really good. It didn’t matter if it was on her foot or whatever.

[01:08:44] She and I have lots of eye contact. So, you know, we did that for some amount of time and then we decided that we should give him his station back. And then she and I went to the aftercare room and just kind of cuddled [01:09:00] and snuggled and talked for a long time and had very special quality time together and very sweet, cemented the bond that I, I thought I had felt.

[01:09:13] But you know, you never, you never know for certain how another person is feeling. Right. You know, until they tell you. I mean, actions do speak louder than words. But words can confirm in ways that actions may not always.

[01:09:29] Briana cavanaugh: [01:09:29] And, and so I think we should wrap up,

[01:09:31] Tonya : [01:09:31] cause we’re like five hours, five hours later, Tanya stops talking because she’s lost her voice and can’t talk.

[01:09:40] Briana cavanaugh: [01:09:40] I mean it’s, it’s a good story. And I think that like there’s a sub, cause I found you guys a couple of hours later. Yeah. A little bit later. And you were hanging out at the, there’s a, like a. A lobby bar and having some refreshments. And there is a, there is a palpable bond. And I just like when we started, we were talking about all these [01:10:00] different kinds of relationships and I just got to want to go back and be like, you know, this relationship is with someone who you knew, like who didn’t know you cause they’re, you know, kind of a sex, sex celebrity.

[01:10:10] And. And over a period of a year. Right? So seeing them last year at Desire once in the middle of the year, keeping in touch, and there’s a, there’s a sweet, deep connection, and it’s not, it’s not a husband, right? It’s not one of those idealized connections. It’s one of the things when you, when you step outside of having proscribed or prescribed or, you know.

[01:10:37] Tonya : [01:10:37] Define

[01:10:38] Briana cavanaugh: [01:10:38] defined, pre-ordered relationships that you can find these really amazing Swedes, unexpected places that are just very… I mean heart connecting, loving, satisfying, like absolutely. Yeah. And, and I, for me, that’s, that’s part and parcel of all this. That you [01:11:00] can have all these connections and all these different ways and they, they don’t look like, you know, what, what mainstream people, you know, connections are kind of quote unquote supposed to look like.

[01:11:10] But like, if you’ve been listening to this story, like Tanya is really happy. I saw Tristan, she was really happy to, I can vouch for her. And, um. And, yeah, and it’s not always about knowing what will happen and living together and raising children and doing all these things. And I just wanted to kind of bring it back around to this idea of making extraordinary choices.

[01:11:30] Like it’s, you know, might not be what every other relationship looks like, but if you’re listening, you can, you can really hear the joy and the satisfaction in all of this. Is there any, do you want to say anything else to wrap it up?

[01:11:47] Tonya : [01:11:47] I’m so happy to be here. It it, it was, it’s never easy for me to get here because I am financially challenged and I talk about, you know, how many [01:12:00] ****s do I have to suck to get here? There were literally some ****s sucked to get me here. There, there was legit sex work. Well, legit quotation mark sex work involved to get here because I think it’s worth it.

[01:12:13] And the struggle,

[01:12:15] the financial hardships that I’ve undertaken to get here are absolutely worth being here with my people and my community and making those connections, you know?

[01:12:30] Briana cavanaugh: [01:12:30] And we support sex workers. Like it’s, it’s legitimate.

[01:12:33] Tonya : [01:12:33] Yeah. AB sex work is work. That’s right. We’re all selling our bodies in one way or another.

[01:12:39] Briana cavanaugh: [01:12:39] You know? Thanks for being willing to talk about it and share all the, you see details and the giggles and fun and smiles and all of that.

[01:12:48] Tonya : [01:12:48] Thank you so much for be here having me. It’s been my pleasure.

[01:12:52] Briana cavanaugh: [01:12:52] Thanks for being had. That’s right. More on that later. [01:13:00] Bye. Bye everyone. This has been extraordinary podcast.

[01:13:05] Remember that you have the ability to make extraordinary choices and meet extraordinary people. Thank you so much for listening. Please make sure to like review and subscribe to my podcast, especially hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If extraordinary has contributed to your life in any way, please pop over to our Patrion at patrion.com/extraordinary with four X’s patrion.com/extraordinary with four exes and contribute to making the podcast go.

[01:13:33] You can sign up for more information as well and get cool stuff and ask me all your questions. That’s patriotic.com/extraordinary thank you so much. [01:14:00]


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EP 03 – Fat Sex-cation with Xine Story LIVE at Desire, in Cancun!

EP 03 – Fat Sex-cation with Xine Story LIVE at Desire, in Cancun!

Ep 02 Fat Sex-cation with Xine Story LIVE at Desire, in Cancun!

 The Fat Sex Series!

This is a really fun episode with Xine Story! It was recorded while we were at Desire Riviera Maya – a swinger resort with a group call the Swingset Takes Desire!  We get deep in it and talk about so many sweet and sexy things inclduing having pleasure now even though you don’t love your body!


This was a lot of fun to do!


At one point we get interuprted for folks bringing us chocolate! You should be so lucky!


Come hang out with us and talk about having pleasure even if you don’t love your body,  having multiple partners, loving bi men and making sure there’s lots of space for hot bi men!

Show notes: Fat Sex Series! Fat Sex-cation with Xine Story Interview at Desire

  • Christine lives in the San Francisco Bay Area and, although busy, is always looking for new friends, community, and activity partners! If you’d like to get in touch, the best way is to send her a Facebook message or friend request (https://www.facebook.com/Xine.story) You may also email her at christineastory@gmail.com for a slower response. Also @RainyDayMondays on Instagram

    This was recorded at Desire Riviera Maya in Cancun. My sweetheart and I were there with the folks from Life on the SwingSet for a little event they call “Swingset takes Desire.” Desire is a swinger resort in Cancun Mexico that is taken over by a group of what I think of as freaks and queers: poly, swinger, kinky, queer, sex positive folks. Some new folks, lots of returners.

    I interviewed several people and this is one of those. They are a bit out of recording order because of various logistics like getting people’s bios and so on so ignore all that. These were recorded with my iPhone so I’ve done my best with the sound quality.

    Also reference Nomy Lamm – queer, fat icon. Who happens to be one of the fat queers that I also connected with in another place in Fat community. I met met Nomy at https://nolose.org/

    I reached out to her to see if she wanted to comment and this is what she said:

    “hi briana! this sounds amazing. my website is nomyteaches.com.

    you could also mention that I’m the creative director for Sins Invalid – sinsinvalid.org. also if people want access to the first issue of ‘i’m so ****ing beautiful’ (released in 1993!) here is a link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxM9mTeuGlNaUm5ScUtDNkVXc0k/view?usp=sharing

    So now you can reach out to Nomy and her work and see what a bad ass she is too!

    Also she’ll hopefully be on an upcoming episode and you can hear her yourselves!


    • how did you become sex positive? Christine: Oh, I was always a horny little ****.
    • On her partner struggling: not being able to communicate well meant that he didn’t have the words to describe how he felt or really to identify it so it was hard to talk about.
    • “Actually all, all of my partners are, are queer men currently, but his main interest is in, in guys like sexually. But he’s a varsity cuddler!”
    • On Bi men “There were a lot of men putting their mouths in a lot of places. And we like that!”
    • Queerness and queer invisibility and seeing internalized homophobia.
    • “You know, we didn’t know you were queer. We thought you were straight. And he’s just like. Well, I have the purple bead, I have the rainbow necklace, I have the rainbow bead. My toenails are painted rainbow. My fingernails are painted. I’m wearing ladies’ flip flops. More do I have to do?”
    • We give a lot of love to bi men!
    • “you don’t have to be 100% love your body to, to use it in a way that’s pleasurable”
    • Also @RainyDayMondays on Instagram



TRANSCRIPT: Christine Story podcast – Have Pleasure Now!

[00:00:15]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:00:15] so today we’re doing another guest interview about fat sex. Our guests are interview days. We get to learn from and about folks doing fat positive or fat positive adjacent work.  as a reminder, we don’t bleep out cuss words or swear words. We don’t edit for explicit material or content. So this is your content warning that this interview may contain. And hopefully will contain adult material and listener discretion is advised.

[00:00:41] Welcome to the podcast!

[00:00:42] We’re here today. I’m with Christina or Xine. I’m here at Desire. Um, it’s our Thursday, and this is the,

[00:00:50] Xine Story: [00:00:50] I think this

[00:00:50] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:00:50] is the fourth interview we’re doing now. Hi.

[00:00:53] Xine Story: [00:00:53] Hello.

[00:00:54] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:00:54] It’s great to have you.

[00:00:56] Xine Story: [00:00:56] Thank you.

[00:00:56] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:00:56] You’re another California person. [00:01:00] So I’m from, I’m, I live in Redwood city. And you were saying that you live in.

[00:01:04] Xine Story: [00:01:04] Yeah. I live in Pacifica.

[00:01:05] Too far away.

[00:01:06] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:01:06] Is that too far away? Bay area people. Yay. We had someone from Albuquerque and from East coast, and I was just talking to another person I might have on tomorrow who’s from North Carolina, and I kind of love that. People are

[00:01:19] from like,

[00:01:21] they’re from all over the place. Um, so I meant to ask you, I think folks, if you’ve listened to other ones of these, you know, I’m going to ask the, the fi vital statistics question, and then  I’m gonna ask you a bunch of other questions. So, um, so some vital stats. What, what, what race are you,

[00:01:41] Xine Story: [00:01:41] um, white,

[00:01:43] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:01:43] you think you and how old are you.

[00:01:46] Xine Story: [00:01:46] I will be

[00:01:46] 40, a few days.

[00:01:48] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:01:48] Yay. Happy birthday. do you have any other marginalized identity? Like are you queer, disabled? Um, we assume that you identify as fat, but you can say [00:02:00] that as well.

[00:02:02] Xine Story: [00:02:02] um, yeah, I

[00:02:03] identify as fat.

[00:02:05] Um, as bisexual as queer. As pansexual. I don’t want to inadvertently exclude anybody. Mmm.

[00:02:20] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:02:20] Awesome. That’s great.

[00:02:23] Um, and do you have any other marginalized  are you disabled or, you know,

[00:02:29] Xine Story: [00:02:29] I’m privileged in a lot of ways.

[00:02:31] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:02:31] Yeah. Yeah. There, it’s, uh, uh, folks who are here.

[00:02:36] It’s a lot of

[00:02:37] financial

[00:02:37] class

[00:02:38] privilege to be able to come on a vacation to Mexico and to be able to travel and to be able to spend money to come on a

[00:02:46] sex cation.

[00:02:47] Xine Story: [00:02:47] Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:02:49] So where, how did you, how did you come to your fat

[00:02:53] identity? Um,

[00:02:57] so let’s

[00:02:59] see. [00:03:00] My birthday actually goes with the years, so in 19 94 I was about 14 and I was 1984 and so there were all these awesome right girls up in Seattle doing right girl things.  and I lived in the Florida suburbs, but I

[00:03:20] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:03:20] Not near Seattle,

[00:03:21] Xine Story: [00:03:21] not near Seattle, but I had a good friend named Christie who wouldn’t mind my giving her name. And she really got me into like pong getting right girl and feminism and. Introduced me to this fan zine and called, “I’m so ****ing beautiful inviting” Nomy Lamm, and it just

[00:03:39] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:03:39] Written by Nomy!! I Know me.

[00:03:40] It just really is amazing.

[00:03:42] Xine Story: [00:03:42] Yeah. And I mean, it, it really like changed my life in a lot of ways. Like it gave me, I think, words to say things that I might not have had words to say before. And, um, you know, so, so much other stuff. And like, I think Nomy [00:04:00] and a lot of.

[00:04:01] The

[00:04:02] really cool people that were coming out of that subculture were like a few years older than us, maybe like five to 10 years older than us. That’s so like they would have been maybe 20 at the time and they were just producing so much awesome this that somehow trickled down through the postal mail to like my suburban Florida home. And then. Know, I also went to, in 1996, there was this, yeah, the one and only,

[00:04:37]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:04:37] yeah. Awesome.

[00:04:39]Xine Story: [00:04:39] But um, yeah, so I was really influenced by her zine “I’m so ****ing beautiful.” And, um, it was great. And I, I still have copies from like 1994, you know, and those, those years of it, like in my room,

[00:04:53] I met Nommy, I think

[00:04:54] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:04:54] the first time at no lose.  several hundred, at least half a dozen years ago. [00:05:00] Anyway, it’s great to hear her name and yeah,

[00:05:03] Xine Story: [00:05:03] so I think she was probably a role model for a lot of younger girls and that that’s just so great. I like in 1996, um,

[00:05:12] there was this queer core festival in San Francisco called

[00:05:16] The Dirty Bird Festival that my friend Christie that I mentioned, and I took like a Greyhound out from Florida. And I remember her doing like a, it was like fat politics or something like that workshop at that festival. And it was also very influential. Um,

[00:05:36] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:05:36] that’s exciting. Have crossover of community.

[00:05:40] Xine Story: [00:05:40] Yeah.

[00:05:40] And um, you know,

[00:05:42] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:05:42] I,Christine and I are just meeting at this event. I think this is the first time we’ve had a conversation.

[00:05:48] Xine Story: [00:05:48] Yeah.

[00:05:50] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:05:50] So this is exciting.

[00:05:52] Xine Story: [00:05:52] Yeah. And, um,

[00:05:54] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:05:54] also the fat community is very small and awesome and awesome and awesome. Yeah.

[00:06:00] [00:06:00] Xine Story: [00:06:00] So like, I, I think that like punk and feminism and, and anarchism and stuff, like getting into that kind of stuff and especially, you know, like, like right girl, like the cultural product of riot girl really influenced me in a way that. The world didn’t destroy me. You know, like I, I think I met a number of people who didn’t have those experiences at a young age. And, you know, not that I was like self-confident as a teenager and not that I like thought I was beautiful or any of those things, but like, I, I got like that rebellious edge, you know? And so I was able to say like, “**** you!” To a lot of people and a lot of ideas. And so, you know, I, I don’t know. I think without that element of radical politics, I would have been able to do that. Even though there is a lot of like, fat shaming and misogyny and, and all sorts of things in, you know, different, different circles. And, [00:07:00] you know what I mean?

[00:07:00] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:07:00] Yeah.

[00:07:01] Xine Story: [00:07:01] So, you know, like everything is, it’s a mixed bag, but,

[00:07:04] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:07:04] but it gives you space to be, to become who you are rather than who culture kind of wants you to be.

[00:07:09] Xine Story: [00:07:09] Absolutely. Yeah. And, um. Yeah. It just stayed with me my whole life, you know, the ability to do that. And then I, I’ve always like more than knowing people or like being part of the actual social communities because I, I’m quite shy and I’ve lived a, you know, in outside of areas that have necessarily had those communities. But I, I’ve always read a lot, and I’ve read a lot of like, social. It’s social commentary and like, you know, like fat commentary and feminist commentary.  I this just thinking of like words to use that would describe it. Like I, I would say like, instead of using those individual words, like also like I’ve, I’ve read a lot of like, you know, sociopolitical commentary that’s been linked, you know, very like radical and left, left wing and, and you know, [00:08:00] maybe I don’t want to use like specific words to describe it because a lot of words change over time and like even a lot of words that, you know, were positive when. Yeah. When I was younger, like 10 years ago, have changed connotations and like a younger generations take them differently. So it’s always hard to know like how to say things that are, how to give the true essence of what you’re saying when the words or the lexicon or whatever shifts so rapidly around us.

[00:08:25] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:08:25] Yes, that’s true. Because it’s easier

[00:08:29] for people to get offended or to not be able to hear you because you’re using language. . So how did you, so thank you for that. That was, that was lovely because it also brings in other parts of our communities, our shared communities. Um, how did you become

[00:08:47] sex positive?

[00:08:49] Xine Story: [00:08:49] Oh, I was always a horny little ****. Um, yeah, I just was always very open minded and sex positive. And, um. [00:09:00] Uh, I w I had it easy, really. I mean, in the sense that, you know, like I said, I was 14 in 1994 and what was happening in 1984, I mean, it was like Kristen over Silicon, Kurt Cobain, like smashing guitars and dresses on the stage, you know, and wearing black eyeliner and like by bisexuality was in Vogue and in a lot of ways, especially a women’s bisexuality, you know, so. I don’t know, even though I grew up in a conservative atmosphere, I don’t know that I had faced a lot of the homophobia and, uh, issues with root repression that some other folks have faced. Because like I, I just was, you know, a teenager in a time where. It was more invogue than not to be bisexual. And I say bisexual just because like I’ve been using that word and identifying it and you know, believe politically and rallying under it, right? Like, you know, for decades. And, um, [00:10:00] I, one coming out day, I said, I, I’m gonna come out as like by hyphen pan, because, you know, I mean, I don’t, I don’t want to call myself pansexual because I feel like it’s not the word I’ve been using for decades, and I don’t want to

[00:10:16] like, I believe that bisexual, the word bisexual,

[00:10:19] you know, means that I am attracted to any gender where I have the capacity to be romantically or sexually attracted to any gender. Um, but I know that some people have a different definition. And so it’s like what I said about like, changing lexicons it’s, it can be, yeah. Can be challenging.

[00:10:36] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:10:36] In the 90s it was the word

[00:10:37] that was the word, right. As bisexual. As we’ve, I think as a culture made this foray into having more trans folks and having that be more, having transfolks be able to be more out and supported and included. You know, there’s the, finally we’re having the conversation that there are more than two genders. And so, um, so [00:11:00] then the question is, do we still want to use the word bot, like

[00:11:02] the prefix BI, because now we’re talking about, now we know and we’re clear that we have more genders. And I think there’s a. Uh, um, I’ve been in the bisexual community for decades too. And um, I kind of gave up that word in the early aughts

[00:11:19] Xine Story: [00:11:19] to,

[00:11:19] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:11:19] you know, to use the word queer because it felt more inclusive and more focused on the community that I was actually dating. And then now coming back to my, like my bisexual community and the women that, you know, we’ve been known each other for 25 years or whatever. It’s like, some of them are really  set on using the word bisexual. And you know, others have moved on and. . This word specifically I think is doing a lot of this community around bisexuality and attendant things and do a lot of, um. Like moving and shifting around.  yeah. So, I hear you. I hear you on that. Um, so was your household growing up sex positive? [00:12:00] Um,

[00:12:02] Xine Story: [00:12:02] not really. I mean, it’s kinda funny to think of it as a household. Like, I, I’m an only child. I have a, my parents are a bit older. They’re not super religious. . They’re just like super mediocre. I mean, like I, I don’t think I’ve ever really talked to either one of them about sex. Like I think my mom told me about like the mechanisms of like PIV sex when I was in fourth grade because I was like talking so much **** about so much **** that like, she just wanted to like, and I was like, what? That’s what happens, you know? But yeah, I mean, not really. Like I, I’m not like my, I’ve had, I had a cat for like 10 years before my, I told my parents that I had a cat, so, you know, I’m not super close to them with stuff.

[00:12:49] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:12:49] yeah. I was just kind of probing into like, how there’s a way that it seems like. You know, sexuality itself is, you know, as [00:13:00] biological, like creatures, animals. We come into our sexuality like it’s a normal, natural thing.  the impression I get from other people when I’m talking about my sexuality, they’re always like, how did it happen?

[00:13:11] Xine Story: [00:13:11] And I was like, I

[00:13:13] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:13:13] dunno just

[00:13:14] Xine Story: [00:13:14] happened. Like, how did you have the realization or

[00:13:17] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:13:17] like what, how’d you become sex positive? How did you start having sex with all these people? And it’s like. I don’t know. That was 1993 that’s a long time ago.

[00:13:27] Xine Story: [00:13:27] Yeah. I think that I was just, I really was always just really interested in sex and you know, like even before I knew what it was, and a lot of that probably has to do with the way that, you know, our culture is seeped in, insects and, and stuff like that. But because of that, I was always reading things above my age level about sex. And. You know, in all different ways, like from seedy, romance novels to, to theory, and, you know, and then there’s, there were just [00:14:00] so many zines in the 90s that were sex positive and we’re queer positive, and we’re, um, just really rad and all, all different ways. So, yeah, I never, I guess I never, um. I, you know, I, I guess it’s more like anoutgrowth  of, other kind of values, like, you know, valuing open-mindedness and valuing like a non corporate consumer emphasis on culture and things like that.

[00:14:30] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:14:30] Tell us about your relationship structure. Like who are you in

[00:14:35] relationship with? How many

[00:14:36] people out is that. How’s that going for you?

[00:14:40] Xine Story: [00:14:40] um, so I have a partner who I live with and, uh, we’ve lived together 10 years. We’ve actually known each other for probably 30 years or 25 years. And, um, he’s kind of like a nesting

[00:14:57] partner, I guess you’d

[00:14:58] call it. [00:15:00] Um, we. Don’t have, uh, a very companionable relationship, uh, or a very affectionate or relationship in like, as in like, we don’t like cuddle a lot and stuff like that, but we live together in a studio apartment and I, I really don’t. I don’t think there’s anybody else I could live with in that small of a space. Um, but mainly it’s because he ignores me all the time. Which is kind of like, there’s two sides of that coin, I guess. So after about 10 years of, and you know, of course before this, I, I’ve had relationships, like, you know, short and longterm relationships with men and women. Um, so. But lately, you know, after mid relationship with him, I started having other lovers because I felt like I wasn’t getting the affection and companionship from him. And, and you know, he, he didn’t really want those things, so he didn’t care. I mean, he didn’t mind, you [00:16:00] know, like he just, no, no, no, no. So I’m like, yeah, he just wants to like, you know, hang out by himself and actually he’s, he’s dating like this. It’s so weird how things turn out. Like the irony, I won’t even go into this cause it’s like a whole another story. But anyway, so we became like officially polyamorous a couple of years ago and um, it’s actually working much better for us. And then it was with like my, just having lovers cause it turned out like he was also really lonely but just didn’t, um, like he was lonely and miserable too, but didn’t have the emotional words to describe that, like he’s never been, uh, able to communicate well. And so this is like part of the problem, right? And, um, not being able to communicate well meant that he didn’t have the words to describe how he felt or really to identify it. So, you know, we kinda came to this, okay. Like, we need other people in our lives because this living together works pretty well, but all the other stuff doesn’t work that great, you know? [00:17:00] So, um, and then I have another partner currently. Who is, um, also queer. And he actually all, all of my partners are, are queer men currently, but, um, so he, he’s, his main interest is in, in guys like sexually. But he’s a varsity cuddler and like, he just kinda wants to cuddle it. He really is like, like, like he just wants to like cuddle and brush my hair and he’s the best. And he’s, he’s super companionable and I spend a lot of my time with him and we do have a sexual relationship, but, um, I think we have more of an emotional relationship because we really need each other. And, um,

[00:17:44] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:17:44] that sound sweet.

[00:17:45] Xine Story: [00:17:45] and we have similar values, like we, you know, we like the same bands and you know, all that stuff. But

[00:17:53] then I have a, a third partner who I’m here with. And, uh, we actually used to have it, uh, [00:18:00] what I liked to lovingly refer to as our trupple, but it also could be called a tree, a triad.  we’re, we’re a duo now, but we used to have a tree, a tree OD with another lady, and, um, tht was really hot sexually for a long time. But, um, maybe not , the compatibility level of like worldviews wasn’t really there enough, I think, to keep things together longterm. Yeah. But I’m, in a lot of ways, it was a great experience. That was my first IX, not my first experience being in a relationship with a woman, but it was my first experience being in a triad, which, um, you know. I’m, I’m down with the sister wives, man. I’m like, especially if I can **** them, but

[00:18:45]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:18:45] yeah.

[00:18:46] Xine Story: [00:18:46] You know, so, um, yeah. So now we were just two, and he also has other partners, but he’s, um, more, I think, uh, like my sexual and intellectual partner than, than the [00:19:00] others necessarily. So, um, I have a patchwork quilt life, and in a lot of ways.

[00:19:09] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:19:09] It sounds very, it w the way that you’re describing it actually sounds very fulfilling. Like, like there’s a conversation I think around non-monogamy where people come to it because one of the big conversations is because, you know, no one person can meet

[00:19:24] all of her needs. And there’s the, um, one of the things is that, um, you know, we’ve put a lot on our. Well, our messy partner, whoever, however we talk about it, like whether you call it primary partner or nesting partner, like, like if you’re doing that, there’s a lot in that relationship, right? It requires a lot of attention and time and resources. And, um, and so there’s often a, like,  there’s a cultural idealizing of those relationships. And, um. And it’s [00:20:00] like, if you’re not doing that or if you’re doing something in addition to that, sometimes there’s a conversation,

[00:20:06] but like, it’s almost

[00:20:08] like, well, why aren’t you being able to get your needs from one person, but, that came up in my mind when you said the word patchwork, because it’s like, if it’s not, you’re not putting things together that are broken, for example, you’re weaving things together that like make your life beautiful and whole and happy.

[00:20:28] Xine Story: [00:20:28] Well, that’s a nice way to say

[00:20:31] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:20:31] I like that. Yeah. Okay. I mean, it sounds lovely.

[00:20:35] Xine Story: [00:20:35] I mean, I’m also lucky in the sense that like I never wanted children. I mean like from a young age, like I didn’t want children, and the older I got like the more. Like, I find it really hard just to take care of myself. Like I find it hard to get up everyday and do the things, you know, like, and like I have, yeah. I mean, I have a job, I support myself. Like I live in a, in a major city that’s really expensive and [00:21:00] you know, I go on vacations, but like I, I just barely do it. Like I’m, I’m like treading water all the time. And like I, I always felt like that in my life. So the fact that I never wanted kids kind of matched up with the fact that I never felt. Like emotionally, psychologically, or especially financially able to, to manage children. And you know, I know a lot of people wind up having children even though they also feel like that and they do it and they, a lot of them do kick ass jobs. And like, I just, I was lucky that I never had to do it and I never wanted to do it and I never had to do it. And so, like, essentially I live a life with very few. Responsibilities besides like taking care of myself, like, you know, managing to have an income enough to support myself and be like, you know, with the basic food and shelter and stuff. Like I don’t have screaming things that I have to come home to or, you know what I mean? Like I do, I one year old son.

[00:21:57] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:21:57] And recently not living with,

[00:21:59] Xine Story: [00:21:59] yeah.

[00:22:00] [00:21:59] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:21:59] And uh, yeah, it was, it was a lot for a long time.

[00:22:02] Xine Story: [00:22:02] It’s so much work. I mean, like, I just can’t even imagine, like I don’t understand how people can bring that energy out from them to, to create and raise and like cultivate another human being, you know? And. I mean like, yeah, I have lots of time to read like about fat theory and think about things and you know, have, have a patchwork of lovers, like, which takes up a lot of time, you know, because like they all live an hour or two in the other direction. Right. You know, so, I mean, I couldn’t do that if I had like, other external responsibilities. Like there is no way. So I understand. Like. How a lot of people wind up in situations where they have one partner and they really need that partner to be there. Everything, you know? Yeah.

[00:22:42] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:22:42] Especially if you’re raising kids.

[00:22:44] Xine Story: [00:22:44] I feel,

[00:22:45] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:22:45] I feel personally very lucky because I have a sweetheart who is not my son’s father, but who like, you know, I made it very clear that, you know, my son, I came as a set, even though I . 1819 [00:23:00] when, when we met. Um, but I was still like, you know, he still was living at home and it’s like, you know, we come as a set and then, and my sweetheart just, you know, shock just really has been fantastic and I think it wouldn’t, I think it wouldn’t work otherwise. Um, but it does require a lot. Like, he, you know, shock has taught my son how to drive and it’s very charming. Um. But it definitely takes deep commitment, um, and energy and time and resources and all kinds of stuff. And then when we decided that we wanted to live together. Um, my son, I moved, I moved out of the place where my son lived. And so, you know, even managing two households and teaching my son how to have a householder. So even though we’re not living together,

[00:23:44] it

[00:23:44] Xine Story: [00:23:44] is, it’s a lot. Anyway,

[00:23:46] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:23:46] I just want to acknowledge that you’re totally,

[00:23:47] Xine Story: [00:23:47] definitely right. Definitely the multiple households. I definitely understand that. I mean, cause yeah, like I spend, yeah. At least half the week someplace other than my actual [00:24:00] address, like my legal address. So it’s like always having to make a few days decisions ahead of time when you pack your little

[00:24:06] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:24:06] backpack, you know? Yeah, yeah. And when I, before that I was, I would stay with him on the weekends and then go home during the week. And it was, I don’t know about how it’s viewed, but it was so much. So like I’m packing, doing laundry, whatever, when I’m home and then I’m awake and when I’m awake. For a long time it felt very much like vacation and that was great, but then I have to still have to live my life and do my job and do,

[00:24:30] Xine Story: [00:24:30] yeah.

[00:24:32] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:24:32] I mean, I’m not lamenting any of it, but it is a, you know, a different way of living, I think. Then the idea that you get up, you have a. A husband or wife or whatever, and you, you know, this is all your, this is what you’re doing and you’re centered around one household and a small, you know.

[00:24:50] Xine Story: [00:24:50] Yeah. I’ve met actually here this week at a swingset desire. I’ve met a few different couples who are like in their retirement [00:25:00] and you know, their kids are finally grown. And it’s almost as if it’s like a new lease on life. Like they’re, you know, we met a lovely couple the other night that told us that they, you know. Like they, they shared that they’re living things that they wanted to do for 30 years, you know? And like, that’s amazing. It’s awesome. It’s inspiring, you know?

[00:25:20] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:25:20] But that you can’t, you know, when you have kids at home, there’s a lot of things that you absolutely cannot do. And for, I think a lot of people, and one of them is go on a sex vacation, right. With a hundred or 200 or however many you know of

[00:25:31] Xine Story: [00:25:31] your cousins friends, right? Yeah.

[00:25:33] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:25:33] It’s, it’s, it’s a lot. Made me very wistful. Mmm. So the other question I’ve been talking to people about is sex, having sex here

[00:25:48] Xine Story: [00:25:48] and the, yeah.

[00:25:50] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:25:50] And how, how is it like, are you having sex here? How’s it going? Like, what are you enjoying? Like tell us any exploits or adventures that you’ve, you’re having.

[00:25:59] Xine Story: [00:25:59] Um.

[00:26:00] [00:26:00] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:26:00] And if it’s working or not working, like if there’s drama, we’re happy to hear about that.

[00:26:04] Xine Story: [00:26:04] Yeah. It’s funny cause I met somebody when I first got here and I, I, they said. Re, uh, my, my partner said, you know, I’m a ****. And I said, Oh, I’m a **** too, but I’m a lazy **** and this person and I, I agreed with them and they said like, you know, women kind of have a privilege in the sense that they can be a lazy slug, whereas like, often, especially in heteronormal heteronormative context, like men really have to do the pursuing. And that really hit me because I mean, like, I feel like, yeah, like I, I’m not like, I’m shy. Like, I’m not. That greed at pursuing people. And it’s not like a lack of self confidence necessarily. Cause I don’t, you know, if somebody says, no, that’s all right, like, I don’t care. It’s fine. As long as they’re polite about it, you know? But it’s like, um, it’s just hard work and it’s like social skills that I haven’t developed yet, you know? And, um, I think that’s like it because of that. [00:27:00] I’ve historically just. Wound up in like male, female relationships because, because of our society, like it’s usually men who are put in the role of pursuers. And most men, even if they’re Henri in relationships, are always kind of on the take a little bit, you know? And so that’s who I meet and I, you know, it’s great. I loved all my partners. I’m so happy about that. But you know, I’m also like. Yeah, super attracted to women and like, I’m not as attracted to the male form to be honest. You know, like, I mean, I like men, but I got to get to know them and then I, you know, they kind of look better. Right. You know? Hey,

[00:27:39] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:27:39] yeah, absolutely. I was, this afternoon I interviewed, um, maybe, um,  was here with Tristan, with  and she was talking about, she’s like, she like, I’m, I’m a diet cause she’s

[00:27:51] Xine Story: [00:27:51] like, I’m fine.

[00:27:54] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:27:54] and was talking about how, you know, we were both talking about how we’re a little shy with

[00:27:58] Xine Story: [00:27:58] women

[00:27:59] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:27:59] and it’s like [00:28:00] it is, he’s like, it is easier to be with a man. Like jock found me. He came up to me, he asked me. Right. Um, and that makes it easier cause I feel like it is true often with women. It’s like, so we’re both like. You know, waiting and watching, and we want the signals to be really clear and, you know, and then by the time, by the time we can even figure out that what we want is for the signals to be really clear, some do to swept it. And it’s like,

[00:28:25] Xine Story: [00:28:25] Hey,

[00:28:26] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:28:26] nice boots. Right. And yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, exactly. Yeah.

[00:28:30] Xine Story: [00:28:30] Yeah. It always, you always wind up with like a lot of guys before and I, I get like, you know, I, I don’t think I’m, I have a super femme presentation, but I mean, like, I get. Pegged as, uh, a straight, you know, a lot. And so I think, I think those ladies who may pursue me or may maybe more apt to pursue me, probably don’t because they pegged me as straight, or they, peg isn’t the right word. Like, uh, [00:29:00] they get the impression, you know, and it’s like, you know, I mean, I. It’s a, but I know it’s another story. Stability, right?

[00:29:11] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:29:11] There’s, to some degree, it’s, it’s, cause if you show them that you’re more on the, the side, people are like, Oh, you’re clearly a Dyke. Right? Like, Oh, you like women. Right? Which might or might not be true. Um, but I think it’s really easy for, especially men to just read women who are even a little bit fun, you know, through high Femme to be straight. And, and,

[00:29:33] Xine Story: [00:29:33] or not care.

[00:29:34] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:29:34] Yeah. And so they’re just kind of on the table, right? Like, Oh yeah, those women are available to me. And they, and yeah. I think that’s part of an, like, kind of male entitlement. It’s like, Oh, those, those women are attracted to me. Um, which is its own, you know, it doesn’t feel to me like men. Are like women are, are attracted to me, [00:30:00] it doesn’t feel like a bad thing inherently, but I do wish that more women and other gendere people were like, yeah, those people, women, trans people, whatever, are attracted to me enough that they felt like they could risk because it was kind of within the balance of cultural acceptability, right? Like it’s okay for men to get rejected by women. It’s part of our cultural story, right? Is it okay for women to get rejected by women? We don’t have a strong cultural story about that, right? It’s like  the cultural narrative, it seems like. Um. And it’s more, okay. For Butch women to ask femme women, right? It’s the lesbian sheep. It’s like, you know, the men, the male sheep mountain, the female sheep, like you don’t know if, if there are female sheep because of lesbian sheep, because they’re not, they don’t display the same behaviors. So it’s hard to, harder to identify them. Anyway, I’m [00:31:00] just musing, thinking out loud about this. There was a girl, a woman’s only orgy that, um. That was here?

[00:31:11] Xine Story: [00:31:11] Yeah. Oh, I was in the first draft of that for the first night. It never really took off because, um, we got rained on. There are a few of us there, and we got rained on and so then it, you know, moved into, um. Some very nice peoples, uh, room.

[00:31:28] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:31:28] Oh, nice.

[00:31:28] Xine Story: [00:31:28] And they posted the room number on the chat, but, uh, probably, uh, like it was one of the first days here. And like, for example, I didn’t know that the chat was still going because like, I’ve been having wifi problems and there’s just been so much going on, you know, so maybe a lot of people I think would have been interested, but didn’t know that they were welcome to come to their room or the

[00:31:48] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:31:48] app on their phone. They’re not checking either on their phone with them, like, yeah. Yeah, it’s, there’s a logistic problem. I also think, um, the two things I feel like they’re not very [00:32:00] well attended. One is the women’s only orgy, and the other one is the, well, the one that they’re now calling the bis stravaganza but there tonight,

[00:32:07] yeah,

[00:32:07] that was originally, I thought it was aimed around supporting men being together.

[00:32:12] Xine Story: [00:32:12] Um, that’s what I thought too, man, on man play.

[00:32:16] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:32:16] Uh, but in the conversations I’ve been hearing on the resort, people are talking about, well, by stravaganza means everybody,

[00:32:22] right? There’s been a lot of confusion with, with nomenclature, like, especially like with the queer versus BI, because like there’s the purple beads for BI. And then there’s, there was originally like the rainbow color necklace and then some lovely person put the rainbow beads that were for queer and. Like we just put both, cause we didn’t, we didn’t want any confusion, you know? But it’s like, it’s like, Oh well if there’s somebody that’s signaling as queer but not as BI and they’re presenting as like gender normative, I think it is the way I’m going to say it. Like then what does that mean? How do I take that? Does, do I take that [00:33:00] as, yeah. Like it’s just, I think people, not everybody is taking like those terms in the same way,. Which is, yeah. Fine, but it’s, it’s creating confusion, right? Like, like for the, by extravaganza. Like I also thought it was for, you know, guys to get their bi on and get their queer on. And which is great because like, you know, queer BI queer guys like, have like their own set of problems, which are just, you know, yeah. And like a lot of ways, like they. Have problems, you know, that we don’t face because of the way that, um, like female, same sex sex is, is kind of, um, eroticized

[00:33:44] by men.

[00:33:45] Xine Story: [00:33:45] Right. So, so whereas like male, same sex, sex is, is, especially among non gay men, is seen as like a masculinity weakness almost. Yeah.

[00:33:58] You know.

[00:34:00] [00:34:00] That’s exactly right. Yeah.

[00:34:01] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:34:01] Yeah. Among the things that happens.

[00:34:03] Xine Story: [00:34:03] Yeah. So, and then, you know, like my partner that I’m here with pointed out, Oh, well it’s the bi extravaganza, so. I think that means that women are supposed to come too because like how could we be bi without the women there in some capacity? Like we were just, we’re just trying to like, cause I was like, okay, is that something that I should go do? Should I go as a, as a voyeur, should I, should I just kind of do my own thing and let you like, you know, I mean like we were just trying to figure it out and like, well we know like, wait, wait, he, I just want to help them get as queer on, you know, like, I mean,

[00:34:36] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:34:36] I had a whole thought process last night. Considering posting to the group chat and being like supportive, like specifically, you know, supportive of men and offering to like listen to them or help them or hold space so that they can do whatever they want to do. Cause

[00:34:51] there’s been a little

[00:34:52] bit of like, Oh well, you know, last year the BI, the men’s gathering was like two or three dudes [00:35:00] and

[00:35:00] that’s fine.

[00:35:01] But also if there’s, if we want to create more space for men. We have to figure out how we’re going to create more space for men and be explicitly like welcoming and, and including, um, or, or we decided you don’t need that space. Right? But if we’re queer centered, we, I think we do need that space. I do think we want that space and we would just have like, you know, continuing to have more conversations about, you know, I don’t know, maybe we just need to ask more people, Hey, are you,

[00:35:29] Xine Story: [00:35:29] yeah, I mean like, this is actually kind of almost case in point, but you know, we met this lovely couple and. The, the male counterpart of the couple was, you know, he, he likes the, you know, the, the men and the ladies, um, and he, and other genders. And he was saying that, you know, what? He’s come to desire and other swinger places be before when it wasn’t the queer takeover. And people have really like just taken one look at him and not wanting to [00:36:00] socialize with them because there’s, there’s so much homophobia. But since he’s been here, he felt that like, you know, he had a public scene with someone and he mentioned that after that, a lot of people had come up to him and said, Oh, we didn’t know. You know, we didn’t know you were queer. We thought you were straight. And he’s just like. Well, I have the purple bead, I have the rainbow necklace, I have the rainbow bead. My toenails are painted rainbow. My fingernails are painted. I’m wearing ladies’ flip flops. More do I have to do? It’s like, yeah, you’re

[00:36:35] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:36:35] not reading the signs.

[00:36:38] Xine Story: [00:36:38] So I also think there’s a lot of internal hobo.

[00:36:41] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:36:41] It’s like it’s internalized homophobia, right?

[00:36:43] Xine Story: [00:36:43] If your default

[00:36:45] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:36:45] assumption is that the people across from you are straight, right, that’s internalized homophobia.

[00:36:50] And, and I think that as a culture, we struggle with that,

[00:36:53] you know? And I think, I think there’s a lot of things that as a culture, we struggle with it and we pretend that it’s just us.

[00:37:00] [00:37:00] Xine Story: [00:37:00] Like,

[00:37:00] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:37:00] Oh, I didn’t know. But if the cultural assumption is those people are straight, that everybody is straight, right then just by

[00:37:09] assuming other people are straight,

[00:37:10] you’re, you have some internalized

[00:37:13] homophobia

[00:37:14] and, and it’s not personal to you. . Right? The reason that it’s happening to him is that everybody, right. All these people all over are all struggling with that and all pretending it’s them.

[00:37:26] Xine Story: [00:37:26] Right? Yeah. I mean, we keep income sensitive, like we can’t even get accurate numbers, like from the time that I was, you know, very young, like I heard that, I mean, there’s even a pansy division song that has a line about 10% you know, like, like 10% is supposed to be gay. Right? And so it’s like, okay, well, we know historically a lot of. Those, like supposedly gay people were not monosexual, you know, they were, they were bi in some pan in some way, right? Like they were somewhere on the spectrum that wasn’t [00:38:00] at one end or the other, but there wasn’t necessarily words or community for that. And so we still in 2019 like don’t have numbers, like what percentage of the population is not monosexual. Like we have no idea. You know? So maybe that, like looking at someone across the table and assuming that they’re heterosexual is maybe, you know, like aside from being internalized homophobia, maybe it’s also statistically not necessarily accurate. So there’s that.

[00:38:35] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:38:35] There’s a lot in there. Do you have any, any sexy stories that you want to tell them. Things that you’ve gotten up to this week.

[00:38:41] Xine Story: [00:38:41] Oh, it’s been amazing. I’ve just been able to like make out with so many lovely ladies and like, I never get to do that normally, you know? So, yeah. I mean, it’s been, it’s been so great and I, I’ve loved that everybody here is they from, from the second when we got here, you know, there was [00:39:00] Dylan and Cooper running around naked and they’re big guys, you know? I mean, and like, that’s awesome. Like that’s. That’s like an instantly welcoming sign to like anybody who’s, who’s, you know, a size that’s not normally welcomed and like, they’re really putting their money where their mouth is, you know? But I mean, it was just a

[00:39:21] Putting their mouths and a lot

[00:39:22] of places and we like that.

[00:39:26] Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s just been so great to see so many body types here. And I mean, like, I can’t, like there’s been. So many like rolls of fat everywhere that I’m just like, yeah, yeah. Like it’s so great to see it, you know? Cause you don’t normally see it. I mean,

[00:39:44] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:39:44] yeah, especially in things that are otherwise, I don’t know if I had a smear community,

[00:39:47] Xine Story: [00:39:47] that’s what I feel like.

[00:39:48] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:39:48] But, but in sex positive spaces in general, right. I, I, we live in the Bay area and there are multiple communities that I’ve been to where I’m like there are no other fat people here.

[00:39:57] Xine Story: [00:39:57] Yeah,

[00:39:58] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:39:58] that’s true. I

[00:39:59] Xine Story: [00:39:59] am [00:40:00] often the biggest person in the room and I’m, I don’t feel like, I’m not that big. Like compared to the, I’m about 250 pounds. I’m five four. So my size is anywhere from like, you know, 16 to 22 depending on like the clothing. Right.

[00:40:15] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:40:15] And that’s not that big, right. In terms of the size of humans.

[00:40:18] Xine Story: [00:40:18] Right. I mean, I’m not like, you know, like, like I have a lot of privileges even within the fat community. And still, I’m often the fattest person in the room. Right. You know, I’m, I, I’m, yeah. It’s just, even in the Bay area. I know. It’s no good. And it’s been amazing here because there’s so much nudity where like, you know, normally I go to kink events and just sex positive events and I, you know, like set or center for sex and culture just closed down or went online and it’s been like a tragedy in my life. But you know, like so many events that people are, are different sizes and different looks and are welcoming events, but [00:41:00] people are dressed and you know, to a certain degree they’re dressed. They’re dressed in the nice clothes cause they want people to like the way they look. In here. Like there’s so much nudity that you really see people’s bodies and you know, I mean the perfect body in a lot of ways is kind of a myth. I mean. Like there’s not many people that have that body. And I mean the, the, yeah. It’s a myth that it’s perfect. Right? But like, I mean, what the image of what that would be like, there’s not necessarily many people that have that. And even of those people like that actually doesn’t mean they hate themselves less than us, which is, is, you know, I think a sign of our culture because you can’t market products to people who don’t hate themselves.

[00:41:47] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:41:47] Right. That is also true.

[00:41:51] Xine Story: [00:41:51] For all of the money. A lot of it comes down to, unfortunately, we,

[00:41:56] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:41:56] so I know that we’ve been having a cupboard, or at least one conversation that I saw that I was a [00:42:00] part of where somebody wanted to come on this trip and they were like, Oh, but is it all skinny? It’s all skinny people. And I was the one who was like, no, there are other fat people you

[00:42:10] know. And, and I know for a fact that that Dylan Cooper intend to be fat, positive and fat welcoming. And it is different for men, right? Men who are fat it, there’s a different perception and they’re less, in some ways, less vulnerable than women who are

[00:42:27] Xine Story: [00:42:27] fat. Because there’s all of this pressure

[00:42:29] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:29] there. It’s not, not at all. Right? They still have body stuff. They’re still

[00:42:32] Xine Story: [00:42:32] like, you know,

[00:42:33] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:33] but there’s definitely more pressure, especially in sexualized spaces. Because women,

[00:42:39] Xine Story: [00:42:39] especially in

[00:42:39] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:39] swinger culture cause women are like the center

[00:42:42] Xine Story: [00:42:42] or

[00:42:42] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:42] like the cookies, the prizes like right. You get to,

[00:42:44] Xine Story: [00:42:44] to have sex with the occurrence.

[00:42:46] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:46] Yeah. That’s exactly what their currency, it’s a lot.

[00:42:50] Xine Story: [00:42:50] It’s a lot to thing about. Yeah.

[00:42:54] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:54] So I think we should, um,

[00:42:56] Xine Story: [00:42:56] wrap up a bit.

[00:42:57] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:57] Uh, is there one last thing [00:43:00] that you want to say or one experience you want to share that you haven’t yet gotten to share.

[00:43:03]Xine Story: [00:43:03] well,

[00:43:07] there’s something that I want to say and, um, I’m hesitant to say it because like, I don’t want to be taken wrong, right? But.

[00:43:23] Mmm. I think that as humans, we all have a lot of self hate of our bodies. Like no matter what we look like, right. And, um, I am so grateful to like fat positivity. Like I find fat people hot. I find skinny people hot. I find all the people hot, you know? Um. And I wouldn’t be here without like, fat, positivity, culture and those things. I mean, I wouldn’t like, I would have be like in a crumpled heap somewhere destroyed. Right. But also, [00:44:00] I don’t think that, yeah, I don’t think you have to love your body that like, have hot sex or to like walk around naked, you know? And like, I, um,

[00:44:12] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:44:12] I think that’s a great point.

[00:44:13] Xine Story: [00:44:13] When I was like 18, I somehow fell in with these new people in Berkeley who like walked around Berkeley naked. And, um, I got in as like a political act because I felt at the time that like, you know, the naked body is something that we all have and like, it shouldn’t be illegal. Um, I don’t know if I necessarily feel as militant about that at this point in my life, but, um, and the people, it turned out that were in that group. Their motive wasn’t necessarily political, but, um, through that experience, like, and it was really hard for me to like take off my clothes and walk around a town. And especially because like, people were pissed. They’re like, I don’t want my kids to see you. You know, I don’t want my kids to see nudity`. And, um, [00:45:00] I think like, I hated my body and I was, I was like more like, there was a span of years where I lost some weight and I was like, you know. Like, like, just through like, being poor and not having money for food, but like, you know, I, I, um, was and young, you know, like there’s the privilege of youth. Like I was 18, like, and I was conventionally had, I had more like, social currency, you know, than I might now. But like, I hated myself a lot more. Like, I had a lot more like, self-confidence problems.

[00:45:31] We’re

[00:45:32] being invaded. You probably should put the thing on the door.

[00:45:36] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:45:36] Yeah. Maybe they bring us chocolate.

[00:45:43] Xine Story: [00:45:43] I want them. Yeah. Chocolate they are

[00:45:49] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:45:49] bringing is chocolate.

[00:45:51] Xine Story: [00:45:51] Wow. That’s so good. Does that just happen?

[00:45:54] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:45:54] That just happened. We just manifested some chocolate.

[00:45:57] Xine Story: [00:45:57] Oh my gosh. [00:46:00] See? Love your body. Get chocolate. That’s right. Palovian  justice or you’re leaving tomorrow. All that. Saturday

[00:46:11] thank you. Thank you. What did I, one luck.

[00:46:14] No, I think we’re good. No, no, no, I’m good. Yeah. Don’t cause

[00:46:19] poor editor.

[00:46:22] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:46:22] I, I think this is actually one of the best parts of the trip is that, um, sometimes they come by in the evenings and they bring you chocolate and booze

[00:46:32] Xine Story: [00:46:32] and this isn’t just Hershey’s talk like this is like, Oh

[00:46:35] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:46:35] hand man.

[00:46:36] Xine Story: [00:46:36] Hey, his handmade truffle. It’s like gold leaf on them. Yeah,

[00:46:42] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:46:42] yeah. Oh yeah. These are amazing.

[00:46:45] Xine Story: [00:46:45] And

[00:46:47] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:46:47] yeah, it’s one of my favorite parts actually, is that in the evening we often come back, like come back from dinner or

[00:46:52] come back

[00:46:53] from the pool and they have remade our bed

[00:46:56] Xine Story: [00:46:56] fill up our towels again

[00:46:58] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:46:58] and left us chocolate and booze.

[00:47:00] [00:47:00] Xine Story: [00:47:00] Wow.

[00:47:01] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:47:01] Anyway, so one of the joys of being able to come on sex vacation is for sure. I can’t remember. We’re talking about, because now I have chocolate.

[00:47:11] Xine Story: [00:47:11] No. So anyway, like, you know, I was 18 I just moved to California from Florida. Like I had a background in like radical thinking, but like I still had self confidence issues. I still hated myself. So w it wasn’t easy to like take off my clothes and walk around naked in front of a whole bunch of people,

[00:47:28] most of whom were kind of jeering. Right. You know? And the ones who were engineering, you know, there was half of them was like, you know, what you guys are doing is cool? And half of them are like, Ooh, Hey Baby, can I feel your tip and take a picture with you? Right. You know? So, um, but we had all sizes there and all types of people. I mean, it was like, we had also like, you know, people who had mobility issues and like had disabilities that, you know, are not normally seen. We’re very rarely seen by the [00:48:00] general public naked. You know? So I think it made it even more kind of an edgy thing. Right. Um,

[00:48:08] so.

[00:48:10] Uh, what I wanted to say is that like, you know, it wasn’t easy to do that. And I learned some skills when I was doing it. And, you know, it’s just

[00:48:18] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:48:18] like

[00:48:18] Xine Story: [00:48:18] what

[00:48:19] it’s just the simplest thing. Like, just don’t look down. You know, if he, if he, if you hate your body, like, don’t look at it, look forward and keep going and like, **** that thing whenever you’re ****ing ****ing, you know. And it’s like, that helped me with sex. I mean, like, and it seems like, like, I don’t, I, I really hesitate to say this because I don’t want to come off as not seeming body positive or not seeming like, I think larger bodies are beautiful and sexy because I absolutely do think that larger bodies are beautiful and sexy. But I don’t, I don’t think that everybody’s necessarily there at a self confidence point. And it’s kind of like if somebody has an illness and. You know, like, you want them to say, well, be positive positivity, [00:49:00] that’ll help, that’ll help you. You know, you can’t overcome this without a positive attitude. And it’s like, that’s great for some people. And other people are like me. They’re kind of like Eyeore, you know, like, like I, I’m. I, yeah, I’m not that positive of a person early, you know? And like  people have reported that it’s felt like being like doubly victimized, you know? Because not only are they struck by chance, you know that they have a horrible illness, but also then it’s almost put on them like it’s their fault because they’re not positive enough.  and, and, you know, it’s like, you don’t, you don’t have to be there. Like, you don’t have to be 100% love your body to, to use it in a way that’s pleasurable. And like, I’ve had people tell me and of all different sizes and types, and like, you know, like even like people who are, you know, you’d see in a magazine, like they tell me that they like, like I’ve had women tell me that they don’t find sex pleasurable, even like with their husbands because they’re not happy with their bodies. And it’s like. Don’t look, look in his eyes, [00:50:00] you know, look at, look at something else. Like, don’t think about, I think about how it feels like when your ***** is getting pounded, you know, think about the sensations and you know, like maybe you’ll get there. That’s the, that’s the goal is to love your body, but like you could still have fun while you’re on the journey. Right.

[00:50:15] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:50:15] It’s not a requirement, but I hear that that messages don’t wait. Like you don’t have to wait until you’re like, I am confident now. I can do a thing. You don’t have to wait. You can just have pleasure now.

[00:50:24] Xine Story: [00:50:24] Yeah, absolutely. And you know, like get naked because why not? Like, you’re going to die soon anyway, and we’re all going to rotten the grave. I mean, like all our bodies are gonna rot the same way and no one’s going to be beautiful in their coffin. It really doesn’t matter in the end of the day. Yeah. And bodies are for living in chocolate

[00:50:45] on my body and for eating chocolate.

[00:50:47] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:50:47] That’s right.

[00:50:48] It’s so good. I mean, I know that like, I know that we are on the kind of radical edge of sex positivity coming to, you know, um, clothing optional, [00:51:00] mostly naked, you know, sexy resort, but that most of the time is a swinger resort, which is edgy, but we’re even to the left of that with, you know, all the queer people on the kinky people and all the poly people all spending time together. This is a very radical environment, and not everybody loves their lows, their body, you know, and it’s not required for pleasure. Yeah. I think you’re 100% right.

[00:51:25] Xine Story: [00:51:25] Yeah. And we, I mean, even just on this trip, we’ve met so many people that have express displeasure at their bodies. And it’s like, Oh my, I mean, it’s not even like size issues, but like, Oh, like. You know, I used to look like this and now I look like this because of time. Or I used to look like this, but, and then I had these surgeries and now I look like this. Or Oh, this part of my body never grew the way I wanted it to grow, or,

[00:51:48] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:51:48] you know what I mean? He is injured and I can’t

[00:51:51] walk like I used to. Oh yeah. I mean, when you go up the stairs, yeah.

[00:51:55] Xine Story: [00:51:55] There’s a lot of stairs here. Absolutely. Yeah. Like my, my partner them with [00:52:00] this has like a knee problem and it’s like, we have to always take the other stairs to the dungeon and like, you know, we’re in the, in the. You know, there’s a lot of people that, um, yeah, all my friends

[00:52:12] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:52:12] talk to you. I was in a conversation earlier with Cooper and one of the people who are working on theirs, they’re doing a much a construction here

[00:52:18] and they’re going to

[00:52:19] do, um, a jacuzzi on the ground floor, um, with another playroom. And I dunno when all that is gonna be opening. And I don’t know if that’s up for public consumption up there, but that’s just what we were talking about. Cause I said to him, um, I was over hearing in this conversation and I just was like. Hey are you, I just butted in because this is important. This is my third year here. We spend

[00:52:39] quite a lot of money

[00:52:40] to be here. And I was like, are you going to put in an elevator to the hot tub? And he was like, as a matter of fact, and he started talking about his plans because it’s, you know, this year I was injured before coming here. So I’m, I was in a lot of pain and then I got here and got my pain medication. That’s been

[00:52:58] much better. And we got, I got [00:53:00] shocked. My sweetheart got me a scooter, which has been amazing. But climbing the sets of stairs to go up to where the hot tub is, um, makes me nervous. Like I haven’t actually got up there. We’ll go up there tonight for the first time all week. And usually that’s my place.

[00:53:12] Xine Story: [00:53:12] They’re steep and slippery.

[00:53:15] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:53:15] Yeah. And it’s, it’s a, it’s a big deal. So accessibility and ability and size. It’s all, it’s all at play. Yeah. But don’t wait. Have pleasure now. I think that’s our.

[00:53:27] Xine Story: [00:53:27] Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Good.

[00:53:29] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:53:29] Good motto. All right, so we’re going to wrap up. When, what, how can people find you?

[00:53:36] So I don’t have any things that I do really, like, I’m just, you know, takes me, it takes a lot out of me just living my life. But, um, I have an Instagram account and so. I would love to make new friends. And it’s a pretty memorable name. It’s @rainydayMondays,  which is a Ccarpenter’s reference. So, um, please come find me people. Yeah. So we’ll put a link [00:54:00] @rainydayMondays, Mondays, in the show notes, and you’ll be able to find Christine.

[00:54:04] Xine Story: [00:54:04] Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for being with us today. Thank you. Right. Bye everyone!

[00:55:00] [00:54:10]



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EP 01 – Fat Sex-cation with Matie Fricker LIVE at Desire, in Cancun!

EP 01 – Fat Sex-cation with Matie Fricker LIVE at Desire, in Cancun!

Fat Sex-cation with Matie Fricker LIVE at Desire, in Cancun!

 The Fat Sex Series!

This is a really fun episode with Matie Fricker of Self Serve Toys! It was recorded while we were at Desire Riviera Maya – a swinger resort with a group called the Swingset Takes Desire!  We get deep in it and talk about so many sweet and sexy things including having a Fat Kid Crew.


Self-Serve Toys was kind enough to give us a promo code! Enter Fatgirlfindslove

and listeners get 20% off!

Thank you Matie and Self Serve Toys!!

Show notes: Fat Sex Series! Fat Sex-cation with Matie Fricker Interview at Desire

Sex-cation interview with Matie! This is a really fun episode with Matie Fricker of Self Serve Toys! It was recorded while we were at Desire Riviera Maya – a swinger resort. We were there on a takeover of the resort with The Swingset Takes Desire. We get deep in it and talk about so may sweet and sexy things.


Self-Serve Toys was kind enough to give us a promo code: Fatgirlfindslove 

and listeners will get 20% off! 


Matie Fricker is a smut peddling sweetheart with a deep love for the odd and tender. She owns Albuquerque’s best sex shop, Self Serve Toys. Self Serve is a shiny bubble of love and safety for those seeking pleasure and joy in their lives. One of her proudest accomplishments was causing Rush Limbaugh to say “female orgasm” on-air multiple times. Matie has been awarded the 2008 Tough Cookie Award from the National Association for Women Business Owners, Best Sexy Shop in ABQ’s Alibi Weekly Newspaper for 13 years and Albuquerque Pride’s Outstanding Retail Store Award. http://selfservetoys.com


Here’s the highlights!

On finding her fat identity:

  • Overcoming child sexual abuse
  • Coming out as queer
  • Touching a girl’s hand for the first time
  • Learning to feel hunger for sex and eat again
  • “I’m so sure that you’re wrong that you’re body is wrong. I am 100% confident that you’re wrong about hating your body” Matie Fricker
  • Virgie Tovar’s “You Have the Right to Remain Fat” 
  • “We deserve to be treated well” – Briana Cavanaugh
  • The tension of “the good fatty role” v the “good activist role”
  • Food is not poison.
  • My relationship with my body has to be a practice. And my relationship with food has to be a practice.
  • I love your feelings
  • Secrets and being healthy or unhealthy
  • Resource: The Body is Not An Apology by Sona Renee Taylor 
  • Not having to earn love.

About Fat SEX!

  • “Emergent Strategy: Shaping Change, Changing Worlds” by adrienne maree brown
  • “Pleasure Activism” also by adrienne maree brown
  • Standing up to a fat fetishist at sex party
  • Matie: I want somebody to tell me that I ****ing love my fat ***** and they love my rolls. And they love how they love how heavy I am. They love how things feel. They love, they want to, they want to **** me until I juggle… but respectfully.
  • And I **** feminists who won’t say things like that.
  • Care about ****ing fat people. Touch us and listen to us.
  • Sex Out Loud podcast with Tristan Taormino http://tristantaormino.com/sex-out-loud/about/
  • All bodies are good bodies, deserving of love, exactly as they are.
  • This is what my body looks like when it’s not aroused and you have to add arousal.
  • It was so cool to use my body to teach.
  • It was so cool to teach the whole time I was having an orgasm!
  • We help each other feel safe.
  • “Curvy Girl Sex” by Elle Chase: 
  • Matie is awesome!
  • You can find Matie at https://www.selfservetoys.com/



Desire – Matie Fricker – Fat Series – Fat sex-cation. Sex and fat care podcast 11-7-19

Briana Cavanaugh: [00:00:00] [00:00:00] so.  today we’re doing a guest interview, um, on guests interview days. We get to learn from folks, uh, doing fat, positive or fat, positive adjacent work or fat sex positive.

[00:00:13] Um, as a reminder, we don’t bleep out any cuss words or swear words. We don’t edit for explicit material. So this is your warning that this interview may contain adult material and listener discretion is advised. That’s my warning for you all today. So we’re introducing, we’re talking to Matie and mateys get to introduce  herself.

[00:00:33]Matie Fricker: [00:00:33]

[00:00:33] my name is Maddie. Um, I, my pronouns are she, her on a sex educator by trade. I own a feminist sex shop in Albuquerque, New Mexico and self serve toys. And, um, and I am, uh, I am a fat. Cisgendered woman, white, uh, predominantly able bodied with some invisible chronic pain illnesses.

[00:00:55] And,  I’m a Dyke. I’m an entrepreneur. Uh, I’m a lover. I’m a [00:01:00] fighter. Um, um, did I say I was white? Yeah. Um, cause that, that is something, you know, I come from settler colonialism.  I live in New Mexico, and that’s a very relevant part of my identity.  and, uh, and I’m so excited to be here.

[00:01:14] So thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:17] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:01:17] Thanks for being had.

[00:01:18] Matie Fricker: [00:01:18] Yeah, I was, you know, I’m a desire people or had quite a bit

[00:01:23] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:01:23] and we liked that about this place. So this is again, another, I think this is the third one in the series of we’re at desire, we’re at a sex. Vacation, um, you know, in, uh, what is this called?

[00:01:38] Matie Fricker: [00:01:38] A takeover? A takeover by the swings that takes desire. And, um, we’re talking about fat sex. So first we’re going to talk about, um, how you came to have fat identity or fat positive identity.

[00:01:52] Yeah. Yeah. So I, I was raised in Southern California, um, to really what part? [00:02:00] Um, LA, so, yeah. Yep.

[00:02:01] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:02:01] I grew up in Carson and then the homesick. Orange County.

[00:02:05] Matie Fricker: [00:02:05] Yup. I was, I was born in Bakersfield, but I was raised like, I want some, I was five. Uh, we moved to Huntington beach, Costa Mesa, Santa Ana, an orange County. Orange County is tilting and changing, thankfully, but it’s a, it’s a very segregated place.

[00:02:21] There’s a lot of class politics. Yeah. And, um, the city adjacent to mine has the highest per capita of plastic surgery of anywhere in the world. Um, Newport beach. Did you know that? I figured that out, you know, growing up, um, and so, and, and it makes sense and I was fine and, and I was, I’ve always been fat.

[00:02:41] I was a fat kid. I come from fat. Family. Fat is something that my body always, always has been. And, and returns to, and, and I, um, in that community, uh, really, really internalized a lot of fat, [00:03:00] hatred and,  and a lot of it is for me really, you know, readily related to internalize misogyny, like masogyny and,  of of, there is a, there’s a way for women to be successful and to have, and to have the bodies that they’re supposed to have.

[00:03:15] Um, you know, my parents, uh, felt bad about their bodies but hid their bodies. And at the same time, my mom was also like, naked in the house. So there was, yeah. Yeah. My mom, my mom really tried and still had challenges and, and, um,

[00:03:32]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:03:32] I think that’s, that’s, I feel like that’s kind of what we’re striving for is like, it’s okay to have challenges and like keep, keep showing up, keep being naked.

[00:03:42] Keep. Working on loving your body,

[00:03:45] Matie Fricker: [00:03:45] but I think it was I think that she was in a place of like, potentially like acceptance, um, and I, rather than like radical self love, um, and so, and so, uh, and, and I had a history of [00:04:00] childhood sexual abuse. And a lot of things came up. Everybody had a real hard time.

[00:04:04] Nobody knew how to handle it. Nobody knows how to handle childhood sexual abuse. It’s really common. Like most families have childhood sexual abuse. Most families never talk about it. So there are so many of us who are survivors. And so as an adolescent , when, you know, all of these things, a variety of also things deaths in the family, things, things that were going on happened, it’s a lot.

[00:04:25] There was a lot, there’s a lot, a lot for an 11 year old too.  and, and there are a lot of things. And I was seeking control and I was taking control when I couldn’t control my environment. And, um,

[00:04:38] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:04:38] and it’s normal,

[00:04:39] Matie Fricker: [00:04:39] totally normal

[00:04:40]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:04:40] when all of these traumas and things happen, and that’s what kids want to do.

[00:04:43] They need to find some stability. And yet fighting controllers. Completely normal.

[00:04:48]Matie Fricker: [00:04:48] I was doing everything. Everything that I’d been taught how to do when I was 11. Um, my aunt put me on my first diet. Hmm,

[00:04:57] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:04:57] I’m so sorry.

[00:04:58]Matie Fricker: [00:04:58] It’s all right. There [00:05:00] was a part of it, you know? Um, and then, and my mom used to say, it’s real simple.

[00:05:06] Stop eating. And so I did, and, and I, I was anorexic all through high school, hated my body, was working through  the sexual abuse was working to get to a place of, um, like if I can control everything around me. Then I can be safe and I can make things safe and secure for me. And it really that my boss and and a ****ty spoiler.

[00:05:34] I’m also, everyone treated me better, like it wasn’t like

[00:05:41] when you were dieting?

[00:05:42] Oh yeah. No, I wasn’t dieting. I was starving myself. I was anorexic, anorexia nervosa. Classic. But I was still fat enough that no one noticed. Um,

[00:05:51]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:05:51] I had as a real, that’s a real problem. I’m really glad it’s starting to come out more, but like fat people.

[00:05:57] Yeah. And have an anorexia and [00:06:00] because they’re fat. Yeah. It’s, it can’t possibly be a conversation. They’re just too fat to have anorexia.

[00:06:06] Matie Fricker: [00:06:06] And I was, I was in color guard was like my, like lifeline. And I had to wear Lycra in front of the school at pep rallies. Like there was a lot of things that, a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure, and um, and my parents were, were not able to care for themselves and or care for us.

[00:06:25] And so everyone was doing their best. That’s by the way, 20 years of therapy. Everyone was doing their best. Yeah. Um, but I had like lines on my nails from when I stopped eating and my doctors said, Oh my God, I’m so glad you’re finally taking care of yourself. You know, to have a 15 year old child

[00:06:41] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:06:41] And that’s terrible.

[00:06:42] It’s terrible and dangerous. Dangerous and unhealthy and unethical. I think we would say now that like don’t encourage people, any people, but certainly young girl to have. Eating disorders.

[00:06:54] Matie Fricker: [00:06:54] Yeah. And at the same time, I really feel like I want to tell people who, [00:07:00] who,  maybe are, are in healthcare or,  are, um, have a body that is considered normative that like the, like, uh, the like , they are privileged.

[00:07:13] Like, I was more privileged in that space. And it was, it was. A, a smart, logical, unhealthy thing for a child to do because I was trying to be successful and the world told me I was. So

[00:07:27] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:07:27] that’s right. By the size of your body and my how intently you’re dieting, right? There’s a, there’s a good fatty sort of model of like 100% if you’re fat, at least you can die at the very least that you can do for us thin people is diet and that’s terrible.

[00:07:42] Matie Fricker: [00:07:42] It’s **** off. **** off everyone. But it was those really, it was really bad. And  it wasn’t until I had my first girlfriend. So I came into queerness. Um, and it was a way it like blew everything open and it was, it was like I had to [00:08:00] reject, you know, because of my childhood sexual abuse.

[00:08:03] Uh, even if it was okay in my family for people to be gay, it was really challenging for everyone around. Around me for me to be gay because we had all this unresolved trauma, and if something had, if, if I was gay then, then somebody had hurt me in a way that made me hate men. And I was like, and I was like, or

[00:08:26] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:08:26] the narrative of just had the right partner, the right love, the right parents, the right upbringing, you wouldn’t be gay.

[00:08:33] Matie Fricker: [00:08:33] Well, or that it was so hard that, and it was a cousin. Um, it was so hard that under their care a child had hurt me and sexually abused me, and everyone knew about it too. So it was like, people knew about it.  so it was like, just cause there, there was medical stuff, so like everyone knew about it, but, but if I was perfect then, then [00:09:00] maybe he hadn’t hurt me that much that much.

[00:09:03] And because I’m a highly empathetic little creature, uh, I was trying to figure out, you know, how I was trying to present like I wasn’t hurting. And so be the right body, be the right girl, be the right kind of straight, and queerness blew that out of the water for me like it

[00:09:20] was, it was literally the first time I allowed myself to experience hunger because the first time a girl touched my hand.

[00:09:30] I felt in my body again. And I think I’ve been living in a disassociated state for most of my life, trying to make things right.

[00:09:39]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:09:39] And that’s very common with, so, especially sexual traumas. We dissociate ourselves. We don’t want to live in this space. Yeah. We’ve been so hard. Yeah.

[00:09:48] Matie Fricker: [00:09:48] Yeah. And so, and, and it gave me like this like feeling of, of I don’t care what anyone else thinks.

[00:09:56] I’m gonna do what’s right for me. And that’s what helped [00:10:00] me eat again. And being with women, uh, helped me like, like I was with all these incredible women. You know, I started out with one and then, you know how it goes.

[00:10:11]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:10:11] I know they’re just delicious

[00:10:13] Matie Fricker: [00:10:13] and they are, they are in there, but every time, the first time I felt beautiful, I was ****ing like the cool, the big Dyke, you know, on Castro.

[00:10:22] Like I worked at a gay lesbian bookstore and like the cool new Butch Dyke, uh, like. Had sex with me and I, then I went and I, we, you know, we had a great day and then we went to, we went to the place she was at and when she took off her clothes, she apologized.

[00:10:37] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:10:37] Oh no,

[00:10:38] Matie Fricker: [00:10:38] She apologized. Well, we, and so many of us do, like she apologized for the hair on her nipple.

[00:10:42] She apologize for the, for the way her belly set, she apologize. And I’m like, you’re like the hottest person I know. Like you hate your body. And then I was like in the middle of ****ing her. And I’m like. You hate your body and I am so you’re a stranger. I don’t know you. And it’s so easy for me to be [00:11:00] very sure that you’re wrong, that your body is wrong.

[00:11:03] I am 100% confident that your wrong about hating your body. And, and then I was like, Oh my God, I’m wrong about hating my body wrong. I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But if I can like see every girl on the planet is perfect, what am I doing to myself? And it was like this like. Like radical moment. Of of epiphany while I was ****ing this stranger that like the, like I am, I am at the very least, as beautiful as as I can be, and as, as, as we all are.

[00:11:37] And I could see it in every single person besides me. And I really feel like that if I didn’t have the term at the time, but that was my aha moment around self-compassion. And so.

[00:11:47]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:11:47] It’s beautiful. It’s totally bringing tears to my eyes.

[00:11:49] Matie Fricker: [00:11:49] Yeah, totally. Oh, cool. Right. And it’s like, it’s like that. So, so for me it’s, it’s all tied together.

[00:11:55] And so then when people are like, well, how did you, how did you get to a body positive [00:12:00] place?  it didn’t come from like daisies and sunshine, as you know. And it comes with complexity , and work still, they still have an eating disorder brain. I still have moments. I, I still have, I still have, uh, a critical negative voice in my head that says my body is not the right body.

[00:12:20] And, and for a while, a few years back,  I accidentally got on a diet and I called it a health plan.

[00:12:26] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:12:26] Um, yeah.

[00:12:26] Matie Fricker: [00:12:26] And then I read Virgi Twelvers. You have the right to remain fat. And I was like, Oh my God, I’ve been on a diet. And it was like

[00:12:33]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:12:33] the wellness diet health plan thing as like super insidious.

[00:12:36] Um, I only in the last like maybe six, eight months, finally, it was like, Oh my gosh. The naturapath I was seeing it was like had me on a diet. Like I was like, Oh, I thought I was eating well. But actually what I’m doing is kind of compulsively looking for vegetables for one thing. And I just realized this week when we went to the buffet restaurant

[00:12:56] how buffet restaurants for me are like trigger [00:13:00] my like, am I going to get enough? Am I, can I eat the right things? And also on the other side of like, Oh, there’s everything, I’m, I’m never gonna get enough. And so I should try all of the really delicious food. And so I feel like I walk away where like my body feels full, but like somehow my mind is like, you didn’t eat a real meal.

[00:13:20] And it’s like, it just does like this ****ing head trip on me where I’m like, Buffet like it’s just a landmine mind fieldl of like all of these like foods that I should eat or that I shouldn’t eat or that I want to eat or that I don’t want to eat or that like all of these things. And it’s like, it’s just a buffet, like, yeah, but also none of it is.

[00:13:39] Matie Fricker: [00:13:39] Yeah. I don’t, as soon as I started talking about the surgery, beauty, everyone shares, I have to start getting to like, like I’m like, I’m like, and you may not call it that or, but you know, it’s like this thing where nobody knows. How to eat in a way that they feel good about all the time. And I just want to be like, great, let’s [00:14:00] have that be the starting point.

[00:14:01] Like instead of like, I have this personal problem that’s a deficit and these this thing, really no, like no all in it. And like,

[00:14:10] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:14:10] and it’s normal that you listen to Christie Harrison’s food psych podcasts?

[00:14:13] Matie Fricker: [00:14:13] No.

[00:14:14] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:14:14] Oh my gosh. So she has, people tell their, their kind of food stories and how they like, where they started and their eating disorders stories and how they are.

[00:14:22] Have like come to be wherever it is. They are actually like, you know, I’m anti diet like nutritionists and all of this stuff, but what I really got is that. Like it’s super normal to have disordered eating sometimes, like the, the story that like you break up with your sweetheart and then you eat a pint of ice cream.

[00:14:40] Is that super normal?

[00:14:41] Matie Fricker: [00:14:41] Yeah

[00:14:42] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:14:42] we both are like, you should totally do this. And then we’re like, Oh my God, you’re not allowed to eat ice cream. Right. But like, sometimes eating a lot of food is a totally normal reaction to grief or whatever. But then we  heap shame on top of that. And then we’re like, you’re ****ed.

[00:14:55] No matter what you do,

[00:14:57] Matie Fricker: [00:14:57] you’re visibly fat.

[00:14:58] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:14:58] Yeah.

[00:14:59] Matie Fricker: [00:14:59] Like, [00:15:00] like I have people in my life who, who will, uh, who are really clear with me cause I’m a safe person to them that like, they’ll be like, Oh my God, I’m going to go do this. But you know, when I go into work, I only take like a tiny little bit of food so that they don’t think I’m a fat person eating  like, and they, and, and they confess it  and I’m like, yeah, cause you don’t want people to treat you ****ty.

[00:15:20]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:15:20] right.

[00:15:21]Matie Fricker: [00:15:21] Like you’re all, none of us are in a vacuum too. So, so we’re like, Oh, I feel so guilty about this thing I’m doing. And at the end. Same tie. We’re doing it because we want to be treated while it’s like,

[00:15:30] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:15:30] and we deserve to be treated well

[00:15:31] Matie Fricker: [00:15:31] and we deserve to be treated well. That’s the problem.

[00:15:34] That’s the problem.

[00:15:35]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:15:35] So it’s like a performative, performative eating disorder, like we have to like perform the good fatty role. And then, and

[00:15:43] Matie Fricker: [00:15:43] then, and then on the flip side, it also goes all the way to the other side where I’m, where in the moments where I’m like,  well, I need to perform the good activist role.

[00:15:52] And so, and so I’m anti diet culture and I’m anti talking about these things and I know, I know. That these things are toxic. [00:16:00] So then I just spiral out of my head when I’m having these thoughts. So I started just being really open about it and being like, what? What am I doing right now to try to be good to this body?

[00:16:15] Because I love this body and this body deserves nourishment. And I. And I am still learning how to do it, you know, which sometimes, like, like when I, so I did this eat, you know, health restrictive, like, you know, um,  pull 30, I did paleo did. And there were a lot of things about my like, health stuff that actually really, really were improved.

[00:16:35] And then, and then cease to, you know, um, and so, but I was like, this is the thing. And then it was like, I would eat like, oatmeal. And be like, this is poison. This is poison. This is poison. The food is not poison. Food is not poison. And so, and so I’m, I am now, I’m now literally like trying to do a different thing  and I’m like, I am, I’m going to, I’m going to confess, [00:17:00] like, like I’m going to confess, uh, for the first time in my life, I’m looking at calories.

[00:17:05] And, and, and, but I’m, I’m looking at them because my brain taught me everything is unhealthy.

[00:17:12] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:17:12] So everything is unhealthy. Do, you could have too much broccoli and it’s a terrible thing.

[00:17:17] Matie Fricker: [00:17:17] But like, but like, or any, well, and this, this like paleo way of looking at it is like, there’s like food is either helping you or hurting you.

[00:17:24] I would literally be like. Anything that I ate that was outside of that, my eating disorder brain would say, you are causing harm to your body. And so right now, right now I’m like, well, I’m going to just have a big container that, that, that is not. And I also, I can cause harm to my body too.

[00:17:43] I’m allowed to. And

[00:17:44] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:17:44] as your body, you can do anything you want

[00:17:46] Matie Fricker: [00:17:46] with there. I want to, and, and I like I there, there are things, I have a lot of chronic pain. I have a lot of health stuff in my family and there are things. That I’m trying to take apart and be like, well, what’s real? Cause none of the health stuff [00:18:00] I have doctors tell me is real, you know?

[00:18:01] So I’m trying to figure all of it out and it’s complicated. But the thing about him

[00:18:06] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:18:06] then you’re like, well, I can’t trust my doctors and I can’t trust diet culture and I can’t like who can I trust? Where’s the stable ground ? Well,

[00:18:14] Matie Fricker: [00:18:14] and

[00:18:14] for me, like it’s like, okay, if I can be like I’m, you know, and when I say counting calories, I’m like, there’s a lot on my list.

[00:18:21] There’s a lot. And I can go over and it’s ****ing fine  because that’s what I want to do. But it’s like there’s this a different pile that I know  I’m allowed and I’m making the choice and I’m doing it , it’s like if my body is gonna be, have this rigid awareness all the time, I at least want to make the rules.

[00:18:41] I want to make the rules. And then when those rules stop working for me, I want to make them again. And again and again until we figure it out. So that’s like my truth right now. And I’m fixing the

[00:18:50] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:18:50] ongoing process.

[00:18:51] Matie Fricker: [00:18:51] It’s an, and it’s like embarrassing to say it out loud to the internet because I feel like a bad fat activist.

[00:18:58] And I’m like, [00:19:00] and, and I think most of us do when we get there, feel like bad fat activists. And I just want to be like, so this is what’s going on with my body right now.

[00:19:08] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:19:08] Yeah.

[00:19:09] Matie Fricker: [00:19:09] Oh, I feel so vulnerable.

[00:19:10] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:19:10] Yeah. Well, I think telling the truth is the most important thing. Right? And I think our relationships with our body are really ongoing.

[00:19:17] Right?  I’ve spent a lot of time doing work around money and I’ve actually been using my work around money or at, so yeah. But also the thing that I came to her about money is that it’s a practice, right? And so my relationship with my body has to be a practice. And my relationship with food has to be a practice.

[00:19:33] And what about practice is that sometimes it works and it’s great, and you have moments of Nirvana, and then a lot of the time you just gotta get up and do the laundry. Right. And like period out and, and there’s all the feelings. And one of the things that I wish everyone had was my, my, my sweetheart, who’s, who’s over there, but he’s silent again, very silent.

[00:19:55] Um, says to me when I’m like I have so many [00:20:00] feelings. And then he says, yeah. I love your feelings and I just want that for everyone. For someone, like when you’re having like the, I don’t know what to eat and I don’t know the **** is going on and it’s too much, too little, and I’m counting calories and I’m not, and I’m paleo and I’m Blaaaaaaahhhhhhhh, look, it’s just that.

[00:20:14] It’s going to be like, I love your feelings,

[00:20:17] Matie Fricker: [00:20:17] your feelings, your feelings, and Oh, I love that. I love that. Yeah. Well that, that was the thing is I started realizing, I was like, is, am I doing this in secret? That’s when it becomes, that’s when it becomes really unhealthy. For me. And, and so, so I’m just starting to be like, well, because I just was in a place where literally everything, I was having that moment of like everything is wrong.

[00:20:42] And when everything is wrong, I need to change a plan. Yeah. You know? Ugh.

[00:20:47] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:20:47] But it’s a trap that is the trap that’s like, it’s a trap.

[00:20:51] Matie Fricker: [00:20:51] And they, and, and everyone profits of on it, but us, you know, so, so I’m trying to figure it out. do right by me [00:21:00] and, and sounds amazing. Okay. But it’s hard.

[00:21:03] I think it’s hard for everybody. So, yeah. So

[00:21:06] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:21:06] I don’t think there’s anyone, especially any fat people out there being like, I got this. Like I totally got this covered. I at least I haven’t talked to any. Like if there are. Awesome. Let me know. I’d love to talk to you about it. I loved it.

[00:21:16] Matie Fricker: [00:21:16] Yeah. Let me know.

[00:21:17] Mattie@selfservetoys.com.

[00:21:19] That’s right.

[00:21:19] Let me know how you do it. But, um, I have, I do as part of my practice, I consume a lot of media , that tells my brain other things than what I read and see and feel and experience in the world. Like, like the negativity I do experience as a fat person is real and pressing and S and it is.

[00:21:39] Constant and chronic, and wears me down. Yeah.

[00:21:42] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:21:42] So are you consuming media. Are you talking about consuming media that’s really working for you?

[00:21:46] Matie Fricker: [00:21:46] Yes.

[00:21:47] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:21:47] So a name, anything?

[00:21:48] Matie Fricker: [00:21:48] Yeah, like I just listened to the body is not an apology. Oh yeah. Oh God. Oh God. Oh God. And I really, I really loved it because I was having this like, should I or shouldn’t I, or what should I do?

[00:22:00] [00:22:00] Or I’m, everything’s feeling bad. And it was really like church. It was, if you haven’t

[00:22:05] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:22:05] yes!,

[00:22:05] Matie Fricker: [00:22:05] if you haven’t read it, if you haven’t. You can listen to it on audio book audience. What I did out of all. Yeah, it was so good. It’s Sonia, Renee Taylor’s. Yeah. The body is not an apology. And it came out last year, a couple of years ago, I think it was 2018.

[00:22:17] I know, cause I, cause I looked at the printer, I was like, how is this, this book? So like, and we’ve been needing it for so long. And how has it affected so many people so quickly? Um, and it’s really i , it’s powerful. And, and I really loved the way that she took down acceptance. It’s, um, and, and just, uh, and, and body confidence, body confidence as a, um, you know, it’s body confidence is a, is a really, it requires a will, and it required you.

[00:22:52], we require body confidence to show up at the moment where we have at the least, and then we feel like failure.

[00:22:58] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:22:58] Yeah.

[00:22:59] Matie Fricker: [00:22:59] And I just, [00:23:00] that part just really resonated with me. And I talked with my, I, I just go to work and talk with my friends all the time about everything I’m reading and book blowing my mind.

[00:23:07] And one of the things that we talked about is the way that we love our family or the way that we love people is, is, um, like, like say we’re talking about our dad or something like that. Whether or not, whether or not, or if it’s someone dad’s hard, pick somebody else, but like she has a really good relationship with her dad, but she’s like, you know, whether or not my dad has a good day at work, whether or not he’s performing the way that he is supposed to, whether or not my dad, my dad, you know, is, is even like totally acting.

[00:23:36] Exactly right that day. I’m gonna love him. Right. My love for him is not gonna go away.

[00:23:41]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:23:41] It’s not conditional.

[00:23:42] Matie Fricker: [00:23:42] And that so much of my love for myself has been conditional in these ways of like, did I take good enough care of myself today? Did I, show up to work? Exactly right?

[00:23:52] Did I, did I. Uh, get enough sleep or, you know, the self care checklist of I earned my love that way. [00:24:00] Like, I am so over that right now. I am.

[00:24:03] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:24:03] Yeah.

[00:24:04] Matie Fricker: [00:24:04] You know, so radical self love and compassion. I’m also reading emergence and strategy. Um. About the and I’ll send you the name of the author. I’m so sorry.

[00:24:14] I don’t, I don’t have it right now, but it’s called emergent strategy. And she also wrote pleasure activism and, um, and that’s next on the list. But it’s all about like the, like we make things hard and wheeze and that there’s some really powerful, lessons in nature and in and in community about the ways that we’re actually all in are interconnected.

[00:24:38] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:24:38] Emergent strategies. Adrian Marie Brown. Yeah. And yeah, I have the act of put the pleasure activism book.

[00:24:45] Matie Fricker: [00:24:45] Yeah, amazing. Yeah. I was like reading this and crying like that’s what I like to do. I like to read things in crack.

[00:24:49] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:24:49] I haven’t read this one yet, so

[00:24:51] Matie Fricker: [00:24:51] you’ll love it. You’ll love it. So, so I do that and then I follow a lot of fat positive.

[00:24:59] [00:25:00] hashtags on Instagram. You know, one of my favorite ones is hashtag take up space.

[00:25:04] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:25:04] Oh, I haven’t been watching.

[00:25:06] Matie Fricker: [00:25:06] It’s so good. It’s so good. And this morning there was like, if somebody pulled dancing with a giant unicorn, like a blowup unicorn of men between their legs, and someone said, you know, you take up too much space.

[00:25:17] And they’re like, Oh yeah,

[00:25:19] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:25:19] that’s right. That’s right. Oh, thank you.

[00:25:21] Matie Fricker: [00:25:21] And I think the act of taking up spaces revolutionary.

[00:25:23] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:25:23] Yeah.

[00:25:24] Matie Fricker: [00:25:24] You know, and it’s also one that I, that I. Uh, constantly fear that my body and my voice and my energy is taking up too much space. And I’ve been told that a lot, so I hope I’m doing okay today.

[00:25:38] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:25:38] You’re done. You’re taking up the perfect amount of space. It’s also, you know, especially when we’ve been told we take up too much space, it’s important to re like reset, recenter ourselves and our own, like, this is my space. I get to tech, take up space. Um, and you know, there are ways that people can take up too much space, but like.

[00:25:56] You know, you get to take up space, right. And you get to take up as much [00:26:00] space as your body takes up, and you get to take up as much space as you know.

[00:26:03] Matie Fricker: [00:26:03] Yeah. Yeah. And there are certain spaces where I’m very clear about like trying to make my body as small as possible. And sometimes these days I’m, you know, I’m a middle aged cis-gendered white lady.

[00:26:13] Like the world’s a pretty safe place for me. So sometimes I actively push the amount of space on that I’m supposed to be taking. Like I let men hit me, like not hit, like if I’m walking down the street, I don’t move. I don’t back down. Like, um, I yelled at, I yelled at Aman, man in Starbucks the other day.

[00:26:31] because there was, there was a woman coming through with a cane and I stepped aside and then he just butted right in and I, and I was like, excuse me. it didn’t make that space for you. I made space for the woman with a cane you almost knocked over. And he was like, “Oh my God, I’m so sorry.”

[00:26:45], I love, I love, at this point, I want like sometimes engaging with people about the space they’re taking up and, and being really aware that like, I’m allowed to take some. And also, and also who. Who in this room has less space than me and how can I make [00:27:00] more room for them?

[00:27:01] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:27:01] Yeah, that’s fantastic.

[00:27:03] So I want to shift over to talking about second,

[00:27:05] Matie Fricker: [00:27:05] know how this happened because I will do an I for 15 minutes. I wear a desire and I’m like, I’m so sorry I have, I have a sex on the beach day kind of gang bang. I have to get to four.

[00:27:16] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:27:16] It’s a lot. It’s a lot. We tried to hurry up and talk about that, sex, cause

[00:27:20] Matie Fricker: [00:27:20] he know can, but this is like so classically me like.

[00:27:23] Upstairs. People were like, Oh, what happened with you last night in the hot tub? And I was like, Oh my God. I just had the best conversation with Bradford about, and

[00:27:31] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:27:31] Bradford’s very good

[00:27:32] Matie Fricker: [00:27:32] about our grandmas. So like, we’re just talking about our grandmas and, and religious tolerance and like, you know, but it was like so sweet and like, people are like, Ooh, what’d you do?

[00:27:42] And I’m like, Oh my God, I had the best conversation about our grandma’s in the hottub. So if you’re like, and you’re like, Oh my God, this sex vacations sounds really intense also know that there’s a lot of, a lot of just heart to heart too.

[00:27:56] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:27:56] Yeah. A lot of sweetness.

[00:27:58] Um, intimacy is [00:28:00] intimacy. And like, I think the, you know, there’s a lot of us that we really liked sex.

[00:28:04] And for me, sex is on a scale of intimacy and sex is great and I’m, you know, can do sex by itself or with, you know, all these different ways, but like, it’s not the only way for, at least for me, for us to be intimate. There’s lots and lots and lots of ways to do that.

[00:28:18] Matie Fricker: [00:28:18] And society. Society doesn’t value almost anything except for romantic pairings that lead to children like, like so.

[00:28:26] So I think it’s revolutionary to really value and cherish platonic love. Like my, my, the people I am absolutely closest to in the world. I call them my soul sisters. Uh, they live in different States. They’re my people. My plan is to grow old with them. If I get too And, and they, they’re, they’re my protonic intimacy, like loves, like, like forever and ever.

[00:28:49] when people, uh, hear, hear that, that sometimes they go, “Oh”, like, like as if I’m missing out and I’m like, Ooh, you know, who’s reliable? Uh, the women in my life who I’m not [00:29:00] ****ing like, you know,

[00:29:01] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:29:01] I’ve had my back for a really long time and who I have known for 25 years, like they still have my back through all of the people that I have sex with and all the relationships and all the changes and all that.

[00:29:09] Like. And of course, like they have my back, and of course, like, hi, of course I want them around and old with them. Like, you know, it’s like they’re the ones who I know, I already know, have my back.

[00:29:22] Matie Fricker: [00:29:22] Yeah.

[00:29:22] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:29:22] Right.

[00:29:23] Matie Fricker: [00:29:23] And then, and that, um, that it’s easy to love unconditionally. Yeah. And, and that, um, and that model for me, that I know that I can.

[00:29:33] You know, but I, but remember I have like romantic love of nesting and things like that. I want to have conditions. I feel just fine with that, but it’s good to know I can, you know? And that maybe. In the right situation. I can nest in an unconditional way, but I bet at this point, having some conditions works real well for me with park

[00:29:53] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:29:53] conditions.

[00:29:53] Boundaries, like, yeah,

[00:29:55] I mean it’s important.

[00:29:56] Matie Fricker: [00:29:56] Um, so yeah, intimacy, sex. Here we go.

[00:29:59]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:29:59] Yeah. Let’s talk about [00:30:00] sex.

[00:30:00] Matie Fricker: [00:30:00] Let’s talk about sex. What about it? I love sex using, I love sex. So one question is, how did you become sex positive?

[00:30:07] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:30:07] I assume you’re sex positive cause you’re here.

[00:30:09]Matie Fricker: [00:30:09] Yeah, and I own a feminist sex shop.

[00:30:11] And I think it is not an accident that almost every feminist sex shop is owned by a queer person.  and most are most like a bar, like pretty significant portion are owned by queer women.  and that I don’t think that’s an accident. I think that that people who, um, have had, as I had the moment of my desire and my body and my needs.

[00:30:38] Are valid and important, and I’m willing to do what it takes to, to get there. And I, you know, I lost family. I was gay, banished, like some **** went down, you know,  so, uh, listening to that hunger in my body and saying, you get to get fed was important and changed every thing.

[00:30:55]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:30:55] I love how the food and sex thing just comes right together. [00:31:00] The hungers of the body include food and they include  sex,

[00:31:03] and there’s a, like, especially room as associating, and we’ve been not able to live in our bodies like these hungers are, they’re real and they can be. So. Big, and then you nurse them and you feed yourself.

[00:31:15] And there’s like a, um, I dunno, there’s a transformation that happens when you’re, when, for me, at least, when I’m finally like, Oh, I can have it, I can nourish myself. I actually am valid. I am real. I exist. I am, I am. And I get to have my desires right.

[00:31:33] Matie Fricker: [00:31:33] And it gave me presence in my body and presence in my body gave me an awareness that my body has needs.

[00:31:41] And I wasn’t, I didn’t grow up prioritizing my needs. I wasn’t, that was not welcome. Or at the very least, it wasn’t prioritized. Everyone was doing their best, um, everyone’s  doing their  best, doing their best, and that’s all we can ever. And they still are terrible. Everyone is always doing their best.

[00:31:58] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:31:58] And the thing that I’ve [00:32:00] come to is everyone is always doing their best and it’s not always good enough.

[00:32:03] Matie Fricker: [00:32:03] Yeah. Right. Well, it doesn’t mean I want to **** everybody. That’s what I learned. So in terms of fat, sex, I think, I think that there’s,  a few different kinds of fat sex I’ve had and some of them have, and some of them have been, people are so invested in the ways that I make them feel, and so, and so they, they, uh, are hot for me despite my body.

[00:32:26] Um, and that, and that, you know, I’m just, I’m just so, I’ve such a great personality. I’m so, I, you know, I, I make them feel, yeah, I don’t ****. like that anymore, but, but, but when I was young and had very low self esteem and was just looking, looking for connection, um, that was a, that was a recurring thing.

[00:32:48] And,  that, my body became something that was navigated around, it became something that wasn’t, um,

[00:32:56] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:32:56] not center, not seen,

[00:32:58] Matie Fricker: [00:32:58] not centered on seen. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:00] [00:32:59] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:32:59] I’ve had, I used to have these connections where it was like, I’ve never had sex with a fat girl before.

[00:33:04] And like, but you’re so great. You’re so funny. You’re so kind. You’re so. I’m so, I’m willing to try it.

[00:33:10] Matie Fricker: [00:33:10] I’m willing to try it. Yeah. Great. Cool. I’m willing to not let you, uh, but, but, but, but I’ve done that. I’ve done that a lot. Yeah. And I, and I, and so, and so, and because my body is not  normative and because people have a, uh, although my body’s so , normal.

[00:33:31] Oh, my bad.

[00:33:31] Yes.

[00:33:32] It’s not the normative body that P the, the,

[00:33:35] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:33:35] the culturally centered body.

[00:33:36] Matie Fricker: [00:33:36] Yeah. Their culturally centered body. Because I’m like, my body is normal. Your body is normal. All of our bodies are normal. But the, the body that is seen as, which I think I’m like, so my brain is from, from, uh, the body’s not an apology.

[00:33:48] Like, you know, um, but because that body is not that, um, I find, I find that I have a lot of insecurity  about whether or not someone is [00:34:00] actually hot for my body.

[00:34:01] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:34:01] Yeah.

[00:34:02] Matie Fricker: [00:34:02] And then, um, then I am always suspect of it. Always. Yeah. And so,  then because I’m so suspect of it, I don’t want to ask.

[00:34:14] “Do you like my body?” Because I feel like the answer will be yes, but it might not be true. And I’ve been in longterm relationships and felt that, um, you know,

[00:34:23] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:34:23] read the difference. Like sometimes you can read it on people where they’re like, yes, of course, but you can see it in their eyes or in their face or in their demeanor that like.

[00:34:32] “By. Yes, of course.” They mean I’m supposed to right, but it’s not true for them. And then there it’s complicated. And then do you call it out? Like, and I don’t mean like call it culture, but do you just say, it doesn’t look like

[00:34:44] Matie Fricker: [00:34:44] feel like that?

[00:34:45] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:34:45] Yeah. And then it’s complicated and because your body’s already marginalized,  like how do you, you know, it’s like, how do you navigate the, like.

[00:34:53] What I actually want is someone to show up who just really wants my body

[00:34:56]Matie Fricker: [00:34:56] just really ****ing wants my body. But also, and not in a [00:35:00] creepy fetishizing way. Cause that’s the other thing that happens. But then my body becomes object and my body becomes, so that’s a like body as object body, as fetish body as like, I wanna feel your rolls.

[00:35:10] I want to S you know, I wanna I want, I. I am objectifying your body and not integrating your whole self. And that feels gross too. Um,

[00:35:21] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:35:21] because it is, if it’s not already a boundary violation. It is the kind of a homework from me or this signal of, of violation that like they see my body but not me.

[00:35:32] So when it comes down to sex or it comes down to what I want, they’re just not going to see me and not gonna listen to me. Not going to stop, not gonna, you know, like, so I don’t get to show up. Even if they think, you know, my belly is great or whatever, they still have to see all of me. And I think there’s a, like I’ve definitely.

[00:35:50] I have this the story, I don’t think I’ve told this on the podcast. I’m going to do an aside, which is, I was at a sex party. It’s probably been like 10 or more years ago, and I had sex with this [00:36:00] dude and, um, and it was, I think there was a threesome. It was me and him and another woman, and then a sex party a couple of months later, same dude, his partner comes up to me and he’s like, Oh, he totally wants to have sex with me   was actually the like.

[00:36:13] I was like, He did already, but he doesn’t remember because he wasn’t he, he doesn’t remember me. He just remembers ****ing a fat body and getting off on that. And I was like, that is super gross. And then, and then he continued to  come up to me or you know, his partner could lie and like to her, I was like, I’m don’t do that anymore.

[00:36:32] And to him, I was like, at some point I just finally was able to say to him, you did **** me and you don’t remember. I’m not doing it again. And then he finally like, got that. But I felt like I had to be really like people.

[00:36:46] Matie Fricker: [00:36:46] Most people can’t. So have you been like, it’s ****ing great that you could because, because that’s really.

[00:36:53] It you, your voice is powerful and whether you say it out loud or not, it’s there. And [00:37:00] it’s really cool when you can use your voice in those moments and like that, that is bad ass. And I’m so proud of you.

[00:37:06] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:37:06] Thank you.

[00:37:07] Matie Fricker: [00:37:07] Um, and like, and T. Like, cause what are you coming up against you to all of those things.

[00:37:13] And most people would, would as a normal trauma response would shut down and be quiet and freeze and be able to speak in that moment like, like it is a super common trauma response to freeze. And so, and so even like. Like in a, in that situation, it would be really common to just do it again and then be trapped in your head about all of it, you know?

[00:37:37] And so like, I’m really like, trauma responses are so cool and I think about them all the time and, and I’m like, that is bad ass that you fought.  because not everyone has that accessible to them. You know? And also like so ****ty that you had to, you shouldn’t have to fight to not be treated like a ****ing object by somebody who already ****ed you.

[00:37:57] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:37:57] Right.

[00:37:57] Matie Fricker: [00:37:57] Like I, it sounds like it wasn’t great [00:38:00] sex either.

[00:38:00]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:38:00] That’s what I was finding. The way that I was able to finally voice it, cause it took several, like coming up to you was to be like the sex wasn’t that good. Like you don’t remember because the sex wasn’t any good because you don’t actually like me.

[00:38:14] Yeah. And that was the, like my anger was, was able to over finally overcome the, like, what the **** bumped up?

[00:38:21] What the **** yeah, it was, I just, I think mean people have bad sex. Um, that’s a, that’s one of my core beliefs. I really think that people who are mean people are means that others are frequently mean people.

[00:38:34] Matie Fricker: [00:38:34] People have bad sex because these mean people are selfish. They, they center  themselves in, in any given situation. And when you do that, you are unable to be connected, which is the whole reason we’re here. And.

[00:38:49] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:38:49] Not just that they sit her themselves cause it’s important to, for us to center ourselves in our own space, but they center themselves over other people, over other people’s needs, over other people’s desires over seeing and connecting with [00:39:00] other people.

[00:39:01] Yeah. It’s creates a power, dynamic entitlement over, I

[00:39:05] Matie Fricker: [00:39:05] mean, people have bad sex. Um, but, uh, but then so then, so then the kind of sex I like to have is usually really connected sex, uh, that, and it could be like, hi, I just met you, but we. We really , like weren’t in it. And we’re here and we’re present.

[00:39:24] Um, but even in those situations, because there’s so much fat, negativity, particularly if somebody is not fat, uh, I feel, or especially with people who are like longterm partners, I will , give them permission to call me fat. To objectify my body to tell me I want somebody to tell me that I ****ing love my fat ***** and they love my rolls.

[00:39:47] And they love how they love how heavy I am. They love how things feel. They love, they want to, they want to **** me until I jiggle. Right? Like,

[00:39:54] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:39:54] Ooh, I

[00:39:54] like that,

[00:39:55] I want that.

[00:39:57] Matie Fricker: [00:39:57] And I date feminists who [00:40:00] won’t tell a woman that. And so, and so. I feel like there’s like this disconnect for people around like, it’s like, it’s like I want, you know, with a book, like when someone you love is kinky, I want, so when someone you **** is fact like a book for that because, because in the absence of positive re positive reinforcement and positive praise and positive connections with the abundance of negativity we hear every day.

[00:40:28] It’s no wonder that many of us, myself included, have self esteem. That’s stuff first like, and I want to like, there’s a difference. I chose that word intentionally, not low self esteem because we also are nuanced people and I have incredibly high self esteem and I have self esteem that’s suffers.

[00:40:50] And so when a lover, when a lover of. Like, ****s my pain away, you know,  and, [00:41:00] and tells me that and sees me and sees my fat. And cause I’ve had people who are like **** and *****, **** and *****, **** and *****, right?

[00:41:09] Like your ass as, as, and I’m like, could you just ****ing talk about like, like where most of my mass lives, which is directly in my belly, like my belly is where is the predominant feature of my body. And so if you **** me and only talk about my ***s, we have a problem.

[00:41:28] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:41:28] Yeah.

[00:41:29] Matie Fricker: [00:41:29] So that’s, that’s, you know, that’s some of my, and so those, I think, I mean, I might have more Clark, you know, classifications later, but like those are the ones I really liked.

[00:41:38] But I generally, I have to give permission for someone and I have to explicitly ask for it. And it bothers me. Because I’d like maybe my future dream lover, if you’re out there hot Butch polyamorous, a like fantasy, maybe you’re like a, you’re like a geologists or, you know, cause I just want to learn [00:42:00] about rocks or something.

[00:42:02] Um, maybe maybe study the paleontologist studies on the, I don’t ****ing care though. Hot Butch polyamory. Good enough. Ideally located in the Southwest.  only

[00:42:11] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:11] Albuquerque. If you’re out there,

[00:42:12] Matie Fricker: [00:42:12] Albuquerque, if you’re out there, please. Uh, but my ideal, like my dream would be somebody who said, who said, you know what?

[00:42:21] Like, I want to check in about this because I don’t want to like ever make you feel uncomfortable. And I I’m ****ing you because I like you and because I really like your body and I want to just ****ing tell you everything I think. And I just want to make sure that makes you feel comfortable.

[00:42:39] That would be my dream.

[00:42:40] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:40] Yes.

[00:42:41] Matie Fricker: [00:42:41] That doesn’t happen.

[00:42:42] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:42] Yes, yes.

[00:42:43] Matie Fricker: [00:42:43] Like that and that. And that hasn’t has it happened for you? Like,

[00:42:48] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:42:48] so I get some of that with this creature over here. So one of the things he does, he’s like, Oh, I love your belly, rub my belly, and then your legs when out, you’re like, ah, Oh, it’s the best thing.

[00:42:59] Matie Fricker: [00:42:59] Yeah.

[00:43:00]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:43:00] [00:43:00] And there’s because there’s a line between, I love your body and all I could see as your body.

[00:43:06] Matie Fricker: [00:43:06] Right, right.

[00:43:07] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:43:07] And so it’s like. Yes, I want you to love my personality. Yes, yes, yes. But like, I want you to love my body and we are going to love my thighs and I want you to love like where my thighs meet my ***** and I want you to love my belly, my big giant belly button.

[00:43:20] And I want you to love my, my like, underarm fat. And like, yeah, and just like all the, all the things like, I feel like this is a thing that thin women get. Like men lick them all over, all over everything and they’re like, Oh, I love your, your knee pit, right? Like, whatever that is.

[00:43:36] Matie Fricker: [00:43:36] Yeah.

[00:43:36] that knee pit

[00:43:36] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:43:36] And like the back of my, like the button back of my thighs off, like, like just having that stroked in, smacked in, like, you know, and it’s like,

[00:43:46] Matie Fricker: [00:43:46] eat your ass too.

[00:43:47] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:43:47] That’s right.

[00:43:48] Matie Fricker: [00:43:48] Eat your ass  like ****ing breakfast.

[00:43:51]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:43:51] That’s right.

[00:43:52] Matie Fricker: [00:43:52] That’s all of it. I just want that. But like,

[00:43:57] I’m with you. Eat my [00:44:00] ass and tell me you love it.

[00:44:04] That’s, that’s, that’s the romance these days. 2020 ass eating.

[00:44:08] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:44:08] And I was just talking to someone here who has a fat partner who, you know, my size ish. Um, and I’ve mentioned this before, my about, size 32. So I’m like on the edge of super Superfad and, and who was, I was like. I can’t remember how we got there, but I, I was like, well, why don’t you just talk about her fat body?

[00:44:27] Cause like, Oh, I can never call her fat. And I was like, my mother ****er, she is a fat and there’s nothing wrong with it. He’s like, I feel like I would be degrading her. And it’s like, no, if you don’t acknowledge that she’s fat, maybe she doesn’t want that language. You should talk to her about that.

[00:44:41] But like, you know, then you’re pretending that things are different than they are. You know, and I know that

[00:44:48] Matie Fricker: [00:44:48] she knows she’s fat,

[00:44:49] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:44:49] right? It’s not, it’s not a mystery. It’s not like we walk around pretending like, Oh, and somebody finds like, Oh, you’re fat. And we’re like, Oh, I’m so surprised.

[00:44:55] Like that’s not a

[00:44:58] Matie Fricker: [00:44:58] thing.

[00:45:00] [00:45:00] The world treats her differently every day because of it.


[00:45:03] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:45:03] Yeah.

[00:45:03] Matie Fricker: [00:45:03] And so it, I feel like it being like, like, Oh no, you’re not, that is being like the is the equivalent of somebody saying, I don’t see color. Like, like, Oh, it’s so gross.

[00:45:14] Yeah. Like, no, we have differences between us and, and where things were. And those things matter because we live in a world that treats us all differently.

[00:45:26] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:45:26] That’s right. Like if they treated as everyone was treated the same, it would be a different conversation. I don’t even know what that would look like, but that is not true and we need to stop pretending that.

[00:45:35] That’s true.

[00:45:36] Matie Fricker: [00:45:36] One of the thing I really love with, with both platonic intimacy people who are just like the people who are good in my life and and sweet partners like, or something that really just helps me feel loved. Um, and, and it was not fed sex. It’s so related to fat care and nurturing and bodies.

[00:45:57] Cause I feel like there’s this other thing where it’s like [00:46:00] fat, sex and then, and then fat how much you know, um, is when someone, uh, cares for and nurtures my body and recognizes the needs of my body. So like, I work retail and I work like 12 hour plus days. And I’m like, if I’m with somebody  and they think about it and they’re like, you know what, let me rub your feet. Like, like I’m gushing like my *****’s  gushing or, um, or I feel cared for and feeling cared for. It’s something that like, I feel like I have, I have definitely like absorbed the message that like, my job is to care for others.

[00:46:40] And so when someone cares for me, it feels. Um, that’s how I know,

[00:46:46] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:46:46] feels deep

[00:46:47] Matie Fricker: [00:46:47] and it knows, and it helps me know I can trust them when they also want to eat my ass. That it’s not about some ****ed up. I want to, I put my tongue in that girl’s [00:47:00] ass and this is how far it took me to get into her ass, or blah, blah.

[00:47:03] Like, like it then becomes like, I’m doing this thing because  I like caring for you and I want to care for you and caring for you is good. And I feel like that, that’s like a piece that I think was really missing. And when I feel the difference, it frequently is a lack of care.

[00:47:22] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:47:22] Yeah.

[00:47:23] Matie Fricker: [00:47:23] Yeah. So you touched, I’m like, Oh, I’m like, underwear time. Yeah. So what, what, how were you help me to, to knock it out in the next couple minutes.

[00:47:35] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:47:35] Maybe tell us one or two hot, sexy stories about what you’ve done here and what you loved about being here.

[00:47:40] Matie Fricker: [00:47:40] So, so one major thing I did here. So I’m here as a sex educator.

[00:47:44] So a lot of people are here on a sex education. Um, I’m, I’m here for, I’m here for work. so Tristan Taormino, is a dear friend and mentor and somebody who, uh, really does an incredible job of, of pulling [00:48:00] people up. So where she’s at, um, and, and Tristin Taormino , uh, who we’ve talked about this the other day, what’s her podcast name?

[00:48:07] Sex out loud, sex out loud. Go give it a listen. And so good. And we did a live podcast here, , yesterday, but so she is, um, she’s a sex educator respect her  for years. She’s become a friend, um, a dear friend. And so she invited me to be here with her and to teach. I’d above G-spot with the knowledge accusation, and

[00:48:28] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:48:28] I hard that class  was amazing by all accounts.

[00:48:31] Matie Fricker: [00:48:31] So glad to hear that because, and I, and my work, I don’t get to do demos and I don’t get to use my body, my and I, I would, I would not choose to have my home community because I liked to have space between my sexuality and the work of the people who are coming in, like it’s about them and it’s about their work.

[00:48:49] And I’m just there to help. And in this case, um, I got to,  I got to teach with Tristan, which was like a lifelong dream.  and we were, we were very [00:49:00] sassy and funny together and it was great. Um, and then, and then at the end we broke up into smaller groups and people. Who were interested or able to practice what they learned.

[00:49:12] So a lot of couples,  touch each other in each other’s bodies. I’m using some toys that abroad and then, uh, and then a lot of, and then Tristan did a demo, um, on someone here. I mean,

[00:49:24]Briana Cavanaugh: [00:49:24] Tanya, I was yesterday, I hear about a show can name names because has already been talked about and we have permission for that.

[00:49:31] Matie Fricker: [00:49:31] And I, I went and in a corner and did “Show and Tell *****.” ***** party!!!! Um, and was like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna talk about anatomy and how the body works and I’m going to show you. And so I’m going to show you what arousal does and I’m going to show you what happens. And in that class,

[00:49:48] I wore intentionally wore, um, a tiny skirt and a and, and like a halter top, um, but full belly out, full belly, private, like right in the middle of my body. Sitting [00:50:00] down with full belly, you know? Um, and, and, and, and then I just brought people over the corner and I was like, very much like, I hope people are going to have sex with each other, that they’re going to watch her.

[00:50:10] And like, like if I’m jerking off in the corner by myself, that’ll be fine. You know, like, and, and then I had a huge group of people come and, and I was surrounded by folks and just like, took off my skirt, propped myself up. People got up, helped me out, God’s Howells so that I can lean back and.

[00:50:27] And I, and I, and I showed my Bonnie and, and it was great because I didn’t, I didn’t give any apology for my body. I was like,  all bodies are good bodies deserving of love. Exactly as they are. And I believe that in that moment. And that my body was in that too.

[00:50:44] And so I  took off my panties, took off my skirt, uh, spread my legs open, prop them up on an ottoman and people held up their flash Pope telephones like, like it was, I felt like a rock star. But you know, people held up their, their flashlights on their [00:51:00] phones and everybody looked at my body and I, and I then talked about arousal until this is what my body looks like when it’s not aroused and it’s different and you have to add arousal.

[00:51:12] Months do that. And I talked through, as I got turned on, I showed the difference and I showed her what happened. I showed how my labia changes and I how how bodies change. And then I, and I showed how my G-spot gets bigger and it’s like, see the difference and this is what’s happening. And then, and then I used a vibrator and I, and I said, I’m, and I said, and I’m probably not gonna come.

[00:51:31] Everyone should know that  I’m not an exhibitionist. I’m not somebody who feels more comfortable and relaxed  when people watch, I actually feel more shy. And concerned and self-aware.

[00:51:42] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:51:42] Um, that’s me. Yeah. Yeah. Nervous.

[00:51:45] Matie Fricker: [00:51:45] And I’m allowed to, like, there’s also like, there’s this thing, there’s this thing that happens sometimes in these spaces where people are like, everybody’s just fit out.

[00:51:53] I’m like, I don’t feel that way. And that’s okay. You know? Um, I’m allowed to both be self aware and try and shut [00:52:00] down. And I learned, use my ***** at a class and, and,

[00:52:04] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:52:04] yeah.

[00:52:05] Matie Fricker: [00:52:05] And then, and then I came and I did. And I was like, I want to give myself permission not to squirt, not to come, not to, not to have that in there.

[00:52:14] And there was room for that. And then it happened and I squirted in front of a room full of people. And then I also felt the experience of feeling like. Shy and nervous. And I asked for reassurance and you know, I said, can you tell me that was good? And then I explained like physiologically, like when we have this sort of big release, it’s really common to have attachment things.

[00:52:35] So I’m having attachment things with these group of people. And could you affirm for me that, that, that what I did was good and so it was ****ing amazing. It was, it was so cool to use my body to teach and to also wreck and to, and to teach the whole time. I’m having an orgasm and I don’t know how many sex educators have done that, I think is a [00:53:00] real short list.

[00:53:01] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:53:01] Yeah. I bet it is

[00:53:02] Matie Fricker: [00:53:02] yeah!

[00:53:03] So I felt like it was a really cool and brave space for me and that

[00:53:08] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:53:08] kind of a bucket list moment.

[00:53:10] Matie Fricker: [00:53:10] Yeah. Yeah. And then everyone, you heard it was a good workshop. Like people have been so kind to me. And, and just, you know,

[00:53:19] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:53:19] as it should be.

[00:53:20] Matie Fricker: [00:53:20] Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that’s what I really believe about this space, is that it really seems to hold an ethic of kindness. Above kindness is the currency. Kindness is the way people move through things. Kindness is, is the way people see each other. And so, so it’s, it’s less about who you want to ****.

[00:53:40] for me. and I think it is for other people too, and I think that’s why the sex actually happens. And then, and then in a little while in, which is why I’m like, Oh God, I gotta write things up. Um, in a little while. I, apparently, I, there’s, there’s someone who has not had a lot of girl on girl action.

[00:53:57] Um, and, and her partner. [00:54:00]  someone I’m, and I don’t want to like, you know, uh, somebody I’ve never had sex with before and I, uh, like we are like going to go and **** the two of them on the beach. Um, and I’ve got to go get all the safer sex supplies. Cause that’s how I roll and, and

[00:54:17] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:54:17] towels and water bottle,

[00:54:18] Matie Fricker: [00:54:18] See See you know these things well, the sand.

[00:54:21] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:54:21] Yeah. Yeah. Do you need to clear sand?

[00:54:23] Matie Fricker: [00:54:23] Sure. We gotta watch out for sand. So good tips. So I’m going to go grab those and then I’m going to help somebody have a gang bang here at, uh, three 30. So, um, although a lot of people have talked about like, feeling like, like frenzy, then they’ll go, God, this is, and I, I’m not in that place so far.

[00:54:41] I think that, I came in with, not only no expectations. I came in with expectations of it will not be a good place for my body. It will not, and not be a good place for my sexuality like this. I am not like theirs. Like when they give you beads, there’s not even a bead [00:55:00] for my sexuality.

[00:55:00] Like I am, I’m, I’m a, I’m a Dyke. I’m a lesbian. Like, like, uh, and that. I was like, there won’t be anyone like me here. Um, and there’s not a whole lot of people like me here. Like in this space. My sexuality is probably the one of the least represented. And

[00:55:23] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:55:23] gay men would be the other one.

[00:55:24] Matie Fricker: [00:55:24] Yeah.

[00:55:24] Last year we had, um, gay male  couple, but in the three years, I think that’s the only one that we’ve had actually show up is too Yeah.

[00:55:32] Who are just like, no, we’re not interested. We’re not bisexual. Like, we’re just, and, and what’s been really nice is, uh, no one, no one has taken it upon themselves to try to, convince me otherwise about my body.

[00:55:48] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:55:48] I should hope not.

[00:55:49] Matie Fricker: [00:55:49] I know, I know, but have you been in swinger spaces? Have you been, you’ve been in spaces with a lot of men? Yeah. A lot of, you know, or

[00:55:56] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:55:56] you just haven’t found the right men?

[00:55:58] Matie Fricker: [00:55:58] Yeah, no. Good. [00:56:00] Well,

[00:56:00] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:56:00] and in swingers spaces, that other ones that I’ve been really centered around CIS folks, but also really centered around thinness.

[00:56:06] And when I first came here, that was my big concern is my, my nesting partner is a thin CIS. Dude. Right. And he’s also an amazing fat ally. Like that was one of my requirements when we got together. I was like, you gotta eat like you’re gonna, you’re gonna have to up your game and, and advocate for me and in spaces that I cannot advocate for myself when he took that on and I’m very grateful.

[00:56:29] Matie Fricker: [00:56:29] Great.

[00:56:30] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:56:30] And as it should be, as it should be,

[00:56:32]Matie Fricker: [00:56:32] it’s easier, but it’s easier for him to do it. Yeah. Easier for me to do things as a smaller fat person, right? Like,

[00:56:39] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:56:39] yeah. But that’s, I was worried about. Being fat in this space, because in my experience, a swinger  spaces is, it’s all thin people are, they don’t really want me here.

[00:56:48] Right. Um, and that’s gross. And here that has not been, that has not been the case. I know that I have stuff about it until I am reluctant to approach people, unless the signals are real, real clear.

[00:56:59] Matie Fricker: [00:56:59] Yeah.

[00:57:00] [00:57:00] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:57:00] Um, and so sometimes I’m like, well, maybe I’m, you know, maybe this year I’m finally like, Oh.

[00:57:06] Oh, those people like me. Yeah. But like this is our third time, right. Over a course of this three years. Right? Yeah. And that’s a long time to be in community before you’re like. Oh Hey, maybe they do really want to **** me,

[00:57:18] Matie Fricker: [00:57:18] like I’ve talked to, I’ve talked to some folks who have been coming here for years and years and years.

[00:57:24] you’re like, Oh, I’ve been here, coming here for three years, and we’re just gonna I, I talked to somebody who, who’s been here since the beginning of the takeovers and they didn’t, they didn’t even touch anyone else at all for the first three years.

[00:57:38] And they ever like that. And that’s, and that’s normal too.

[00:57:42] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:57:42] Yeah.

[00:57:43] Matie Fricker: [00:57:43] That’s healthy too. That’s, yeah, but, but, but in a place where there were spaces, highly sexualized, you feel like everybody’s getting some, and on and on and on. And I feel like that that’s, that is not. The thing that I’m going to take [00:58:00] from this space is probably not the sex.

[00:58:03] Like, I mean, I’m happy. I’m happy that I’m, I’m able to like, I’m to be of service to some folks. I’m happy that I felt desired. I’m happy. I’m happy that I got a really smaller fist, mostly in my ***** yesterday. Like, that was really fun and, and I’m happy for like the connections that I’ve made, but, but.

[00:58:24] The thing that I really am taking from this as being seen as a whole person.

[00:58:30] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:58:30] Yeah.

[00:58:31] Matie Fricker: [00:58:31] And that’s why people want to **** me, is that I that it’s that, that I made them laugh a whole lot at the bar, or I said something in a workshop that. That helped them. Or, I mean the people

[00:58:46] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:58:46] Or love your body

[00:58:47] Matie Fricker: [00:58:47] or they love my body, they ****ing love my body and they love, they love the clothes I’m wearing.

[00:58:51] Cause

[00:58:51] Briana Cavanaugh: [00:58:51] cause they wanna **** you until you jiggle.

[00:58:53]Matie Fricker: [00:58:53] They wanna **** me while I jiggle. Yeah. Um, but it’s, but, but that, um, that. [00:59:00] In the same way where we tend to prioritize romantic relationships. I think we also tend to prioritize sexual relationships. And I’m really actively working to de-center those in my life.

[00:59:12], I feel like this space actually welcomes that too. And so I’m, I have a feeling that a lot of people really like you and I think that they like you for so many more reasons. That, um, and that a lot of them are about your body and your, and your whole person and all, and they will not forget you.

[00:59:32] And that, um, that, that they’re like, like I think, I think there, there have been moments where, uh, where you’ve been there that have helped me feel safe and, and, um. And that this is a place for me and that I hope, I hope that I do some of that work for you and that we all make it a little bit easier for us to feel safe here.

[01:00:00] [01:00:00] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so, you know, you know, believe that people like you and make a move to, um, I, I know what, I’ve started small moves this year. You know, what I’ve started doing is just asking people if they, if they, if they want a kiss.

[01:00:14] Briana Cavanaugh: [01:00:14] Yes.

[01:00:15] Matie Fricker: [01:00:15] And I’d be like, I’m kissing people. Do you want to kiss?

[01:00:17] And people are like, yes, I do. Yes, I do. So last night I just made out with a bunch of people. It was so, it’s fine. How does fine.

[01:00:25]Briana Cavanaugh: [01:00:25] Yesterday I told someone like he was walking by and I said, he said, um, I was just telling everyone how hot I think you are. And he was like, hello. Hi. Yes. Good to see you.

[01:00:37] Yeah. I had a lovely make-out and it was really, it was very delicious. But like I. It’s, it’s taken me a while to get to a place in, in this space, in this community where I’m just like, I can, I can see things with my out loud voice. Um, and then yesterday in the pool, there was the two other women and we were two other fat women and we were like squishing altogether.

[01:00:58] And I was just having this like, [01:01:00] amazing, like, ah, it was so good. And, um, I’m much, I’m much shyer with, with women than I am with, um, men.

[01:01:08] Matie Fricker: [01:01:08] DOn’t worry that’s are  women are too . That’s why I rarely get laid

[01:01:11] Briana Cavanaugh: [01:01:11] No, I know. It’s ridiculous. I, um, and one of them, I know one of the women was straight, so I was like really reluctant saying they were just like, this is so good.

[01:01:20] Yeah,

[01:01:20] Matie Fricker: [01:01:20] yeah, yeah. And then, um, so I think, I think, yeah, you should know that when I was, when I was telling people about my night and day, and like last night you know, I may know some people on my, on my pals were like, what are you doing? Oh Matie, just get in trouble as you’re getting gang banged up in the hot tub.

[01:01:36] And that was not what I was doing. And then I came down and then I was like, Oh yeah. And then, and then I had grilled cheese and pizza with the cools fat kid crew.

[01:01:44] Briana Cavanaugh: [01:01:44] That’s right. So we do, we have a fat kid crew,

[01:01:47] Matie Fricker: [01:01:47] and I don’t know if that’s, if that’s the words you want to use. But like, but like, definitely like I see, I see you and a few other people, a few other [01:02:00] pals that I see moving around.

[01:02:01] I am like that those kids, I want to ****ing hang out with them. They are cool as ****.

[01:02:07] Briana Cavanaugh: [01:02:07] And last night was, I got a hit of that and I wouldn’t have put it into words until you said that, but I got, we were all sitting there and I was like, Oh, is this the fat group? Yeah.

[01:02:17] Matie Fricker: [01:02:17] Yeah.

[01:02:19] Briana Cavanaugh: [01:02:19] And it’s so great cause we’re all sitting there with like our bellies out and most of us are naked and we’re just eating food and like one o’clock in the morning and we’ve been having amazing sex and connections and we’re just like, and it was like, I was like, Oh, we have a crew.

[01:02:32] And there’s like a way that I can relax into it because these folks, um, especially the women in that group are like, they’re my friends and they’re my people. And yeah. And I was noticing how like all of them I’d been in touch with since over the last year since we were here last year. And I was like, Oh, these are like my friends.

[01:02:53] And that is a, I feel like that’s Very different than it was like when I came here and felt very alone and worried and nervous and [01:03:00] all this stuff.

[01:03:01] Okay. Okay. I got it. We should wrap up. So you should do, tell me, tell us where we can find you on your social media and your website

[01:03:08] Matie Fricker: [01:03:08] So you can find me on, um, on self-served Instagram.

[01:03:12] So I, my company is Self Serve Toys. You’ll find me. That’s what a space where, where I tend to would, you know, do a lot of posting. Um, you can also find me on Facebook. I’m Maie Fricker. I don’t take friend requests from people who I don’t know. So send me, send me a w why we should be pals.

[01:03:31] Um, uh, but you can find me. It’s selfservetoys.com and, and I love, I love the work I do. And you can find us on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and like all those things, all in all SelfServeToys.com. Tell selfservetoys.com Um, and, and

[01:03:48] Briana Cavanaugh: [01:03:48] we have the link in the show notes so that you can find great.

[01:03:51] Matie Fricker: [01:03:51] Yeah. Great. And I’ll give a, I’ll do a promo code. Okay. Just to get a discount on sex toys and

[01:03:56] Briana Cavanaugh: [01:03:56] that’s awesome.

[01:03:57] Yeah, totally. Like they, you know, get a [01:04:00] discount and **** yourself silly. And, and also, um, we could do a whole talk at some other point about BI about fat sex and sex toys and the reasons why they’re amazing and why also  like paying attention to what, what your body means and being really clear about that.

[01:04:17] Because when somebody’s market something to fat folks, they’re generally not asking. Like you, what you want and what you need and what will actually work for you. And so, I tend to not have a one size fits all approach just because it doesn’t help. Although “curvy girls sex”, fantastic by L chase.

[01:04:36] So check that out too. And we’ll put all these links in the show notes so you can find them and we’ll make sure that you can find me because she’s thank you all so much. And, um. You know, I, I feel so honored to be a part of this and, uh, I can’t wait to listen to it later cause I, I, uh, I’m having a real good week.

[01:04:55] All right. Thanks everyone for coming. We’ll talk to you later.


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